Ya get thrown out for TAKIN' a punch?????

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

This was turnabout and it revved up the Cubnation. Think about it...Barrett is being deified while Pierzynski is looking like the career long punk he is.

Wait, hold the phone here......I almost missed this, and then I reread the post. Where on the planet Earth (besides on the North Side of Chicago, and all the little hamlets which make up the state of Illinois) is Barrett being deified? Certainly not in the mainstream media. Almost all the baseball pundits (except for Jay Marriotti, for example) said that although AJ is a big a-hole, Barrett should get the book thrown at him, and that what he did was totally chickensh*t.

So, yeah, I guess in the Cubnation everyone thinks Barrett is a big hero for the sucker punch, the majority opinion is that Piersynski was the true victim in this case.

BTW, I can speak of the little hamlets because I used to live in one of them.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

All the Cubbie fans are naturally taking Barrett's side for loyalty reasons, but Barrett was at fault here 100%.

First, he didn't have any business being on the train track when the choo-choo was coming in without possession of the baseball, so he deserved to get his clock cleaned.

Second, who cares if AJ said anything as he was going to get his helmet, which flew on the other side of Barrett? That doesn't give Barrett any right to take a cheap shot at AJ.

Barrett is no doubt frustrated because the Cubs suck so very much this year. That probably contributed to the incident in some way.

I hope he gets a hefty suspension for his cowardly act.

Steve,

The only part of your above post I would take exception to is the first part of the first sentence. (Well, and the first part of the last sentence - I'll get to that in a minute.)

I say that because I have been a Cub fan since sometime around 1964. It was kind of a long time ago, and I don't remember the exact year I lost my silly infatuation with the Drysdale/Koufax Dodgers and the Maris/Mantle Yankees.

Having said that, I find myself in complete agreement that Barrett was way out of line on this one. When I saw the replay (I was coaching a game at the time the game was being played) I couldn't believe that Barrett stayed in the way and then came up with the "sucker punch" after the collision. And I don't see where anything that A.J. may or may not have said has any bearing on the matter.

I still can't figure out what Pierzynski did that was deserving of an ejection.

The only thing I'll say in defense of Barrett is that he seems to realize what a completely classless move this was - who know, but he at least seems sincere.

In terms of your last sentence, as a Cubs fan I hope his suspension is not "hefty" - although he certainly deserves a suspension (I haven't seen anything yet on what Mr. Watson has decided). Whatever it is, it would be hard to argue with.

This will of course further "kill" the hapless Cubs because Henry Blanco, who is a fine defensive catcher, can't hit worth spit.

Sometimes (perhaps "usually" would be more apt) it's hard to be a Cubs fan. But just wait until next year! (aka "The Cubs fan's dying lament").

JM

P.S. Hey, when you're right, you're right.

[BigUmp56]

Here's another one of those White Sox bullies causing problems.






Tim.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Tim, it wasn't a sucker punch. He went chest to chest and eye to eye with Pierzynski. There's even a photo circulating of Barrett with his arm cocked back, telegraphing the punch. If Pierzynski hadn't baited him, he wouldn't have been smacked. Of course he walked away, he's a catcher and knows that attacking a guy in full pads is stupid.

The Cubs have fans all across the country. MLB knows that they will pack stadiums in cities across the land. If you recall the Marlins playoffs a few years ago, there were more Cub fans than Marlin backers. That is often the case in many parks. They are lovable losers and the Tribune company is fully aware that they only need to field a contender every five years or so.

Barrett will be the toast of Chicago while some people still don't know that the Sox won the Series last year.

[BigUmp56]

You'll get no argument from me, Windy. Pierzynski has shown time and time again that he is pretty much a classless pr**k. Giants fans were only too happy to see him pack his bags. Now, he seems well suited to the residents of the surrounding neighborhood at US Celluar Field. He chose to talk trash face to face within inches of a mans face and rightfully got smacked. Boo-hoo........



Tim.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Good Lord, I've been doing this an awful lot lately...first it was the lawyers and now you and SDS...sorry for the mix up. I'm a baseball fan first and a Cub fan second. I don't enjoy seeing a player punch another, unless it's a Cubbie delivering a knuckle sandwich to that White Sox pain in the ***.

[SanDiegoSteve]

This is the thing I am finding difficulty with. Just because Pierzynski is a class-A jerk does not mean that he deserved to get punched by Barrett. Barrett got taken out clean as a whistle, and should have just taken his lumps like a man. People are just assuming that A.J. baited Barrett into taking a swing at him, but that is just speculation. Regardless, nobody has the right to punch another person in the grill. It was a cheap shot, and a classless thing to do, and should be punished. Just because you Cubbie fans hate Pierzynski, that doesn't give anyone the right to pummel him.

Oh, yeah, GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This is the thing I am finding difficulty with. Just because Pierzynski is a class-A jerk does not mean that he deserved to get punched by Barrett. Barrett got taken out clean as a whistle, and should have just taken his lumps like a man. People are just assuming that A.J. baited Barrett into taking a swing at him, but that is just speculation. Regardless, nobody has the right to punch another person in the grill. It was a cheap shot, and a classless thing to do, and should be punished. Just because you Cubbie fans hate Pierzynski, that doesn't give anyone the right to pummel him.

Oh, yeah, GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!

Well Steve in other sports it is very common to throw out the instigator in a fight (someone who does not throw a punch). Now you were not standing only few feet away from the play, you have no idea what was said or not said. This has nothing to do with who threw a punch or who did not throw a punch. This is not like the Bonds situation that took place about a week ago during the Astros/Giants game. There might have been words said that no one has talked about.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well Steve in other sports it is very common to throw out the instigator in a fight (someone who does not throw a punch). Now you were not standing only few feet away from the play, you have no idea what was said or not said. This has nothing to do with who threw a punch or who did not throw a punch.

Well Jeff you weren't there either, were you? It is speculation on both sides of the issue, as you have no idea what was said or not said as well. On the surface, it does have to do with who threw the punch, because in a civilized society, we don't always have to react to baiting by going fist-city automatically. In football, for example, it is usually the player that retaliates physically to a verbal taunt who gets the flag, right. It is the same here. A.J. may have said disparaging remarks about Barrett's mama, but Barrett is ultimately responsible for his actions.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well Jeff you weren't there either, were you? It is speculation on both sides of the issue, as you have no idea what was said or not said as well. On the surface, it does have to do with who threw the punch, because in a civilized society, we don't always have to react to baiting by going fist-city automatically.

I never said I was there. I am also not the one criticizing the umpire for their decision either. I realize that there are a lot of things in officiating that we cannot tell by looking at the picture or the video.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In football, for example, it is usually the player that retaliates physically to a verbal taunt who gets the flag, right. It is the same here. A.J. may have said disparaging remarks about Barrett's mama, but Barrett is ultimately responsible for his actions.

That is assuming that the official does not hear the entire confrontation. Basketball makes it very clear that the instigator is to be considered part of the fight whether they threw a punch or not. I know hockey has a similar rule on philosophy. Having talked to pro umpires, they have talked about trying to throw out players from both teams.

Let us all remember the umpire was standing right there. He likely heard more of the conversation than you or I. The point is you or I was not umpiring the game and it is easy from our couch while watching the replay to say what should have happen. Hey, this would not be the first time you have made such accusations. I should not be surprised by your observations.

Peace

[spots101]

A friend from grade school back in IL said he gets a lot of flack from wearing his faithful royal blue hat these days and my neighbor out here in AZ took his Cubs flag down a few weeks ago.

When are all you Wrigleyville livin, South Side bashin, A.J. hatin, chia pet lovin, Derrek Lee hurtin, championship wantin, Harry Carey drunkin, basement dwellin, people gonna learn???????

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I never said I was there. I am also not the one criticizing the umpire for their decision either. I realize that there are a lot of things in officiating that we cannot tell by looking at the picture or the video.



That is assuming that the official does not hear the entire confrontation. Basketball makes it very clear that the instigator is to be considered part of the fight whether they threw a punch or not. I know hockey has a similar rule on philosophy. Having talked to pro umpires, they have talked about trying to throw out players from both teams.

Let us all remember the umpire was standing right there. He likely heard more of the conversation than you or I. The point is you or I was not umpiring the game and it is easy from our couch while watching the replay to say what should have happen. Hey, this would not be the first time you have made such accusations. I should not be surprised by your observations.

Peace

What the hell are you rambling about? I never criticized the umpire's decision. Quit attributing remarks to me which someone else made. Jeez, you're great at that! Saying that I made "accusations." Man, get a grip and a clue while you're at it!

All I was saying is that nobody deserves to get punched in the face, no matter what was said. And I also take exception with the faction who is saying that just because Pierzynski is an a-hole, that he deserved what he got (punched, not ejected. I never criticized the ejection). That is not logical, it is emotional. I also pointed out that Barrett got ran over for being in Pierzynski's way, which was clean and legal.

Nowhere in any of my posts on this subject did I say that A.J. should not be kicked out of the game. I said that the blame lies squarely with Barrett, and that outside of Cubs fans, the rest of the world agrees with me.

Now, quit putting words in my mouth.

[BigUmp56]

Steve:

I think I know you well enough to know that you wouldn't have a problem popping someone in the mouth were they to get in your face. I've said before that I think it's unfair for us to hold professional athletes to a higher standard then we do ourselves. Given the history of the two individuals involved I believe that Pierzynski did in fact bait Barrett into throwing the punch.



Tim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What the hell are you rambling about? I never criticized the umpire's decision. Quit attributing remarks to me which someone else made. Jeez, you're great at that! Saying that I made "accusations." Man, get a grip and a clue while you're at it!

All I was saying is that nobody deserves to get punched in the face, no matter what was said. And I also take exception with the faction who is saying that just because Pierzynski is an a-hole, that he deserved what he got (punched, not ejected. I never criticized the ejection). That is not logical, it is emotional. I also pointed out that Barrett got ran over for being in Pierzynski's way, which was clean and legal.

Nowhere in any of my posts on this subject did I say that A.J. should not be kicked out of the game. I said that the blame lies squarely with Barrett, and that outside of Cubs fans, the rest of the world agrees with me.

Now, quit putting words in my mouth.

Steve,

No one is talking about the validity of whether the punch was justified or not. We have been talking about why an ejection was made on AJ. Not sure this ever was a moral discussion about why someone should get punched in the face and how this relates to athletes and everyone else. If that is the case I can think of a lot of reasons someone gets punched in the face. Yes, some words would provoke an every day person far removed from athletics. You also defended the position that AJ should not have been thrown out from what I could decipher from what you were responding to and what you said. I was not talking about morals. I was talking about the reason why a decision was made to eject both players.

BTW, I am a Cardinals fan and I hate everything about the Cubs. So for me this has nothing to do with the teams involved and I have become a fan of the Sox in my stay in Chicago. I am not looking at this issue as a fan; I am looking at this issue as an umpire. This could have been Albert Pujois that got jacked up and I would still feel the same way. If you were not defending the position of AJ not being thrown out, why were you so quick to talk about what happens on a football field as it related to my post? The whole point of my post was to agree that there might have been justification for AJ being thrown out that none of us knows for sure, nothing more, nothing less.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Steve:

I think I know you well enough to know that you wouldn't have a problem popping someone in the mouth were they to get in your face. I've said before that I think it's unfair for us to hold professional athletes to a higher standard then we do ourselves. Given the history of the two individuals involved I believe that Pierzynski did in fact bait Barrett into throwing the punch.

Perhaps that is the case, perhaps not. But you are still looking at this from a Cubs fan's perspective. I, of course am objective.

Go-Go Sox 4 Life