Disappointed in AMLU

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

I did ask for the details and WILL research and respond just as soon as I have accurate answers.

I do know of a small number of assignments that were given simply because one or more AMLU umpires were available when others were not (IE: Monday at 12:00pm). The umpires in this instance are members of the group amd were long before they went to shcool & were hired by MiLB.

Jim,
You have been provided with the facts. Your last sentence smacks of hypocrisy. The AMLU statement and the various emails we received all pledged that the striking umpires would not work amateur level baseball. Why is that not evident to you? You spend countless hours logged into that site and have certainly read how the beseeched their brethren. You are looking for an out and there isn't one in sight.

If I read your explanation properly, it is acceptable for an AMLU umpire to take that prime amateur job simply because he is available. Hmmmm, that sounds a lot like the replacements stepping in and working those MiLB games. Except that only one of those groups promised that they wouldn't do it. I can't wait to see how you try to explain this one.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Jim,
You have been provided with the facts. Your last sentence smacks of hypocrisy. The AMLU statement and the various emails we received all pledged that the striking umpires would not work amateur level baseball. Why is that not evident to you? You spend countless hours logged into that site and have certainly read how the beseeched their brethren. You are looking for an out and there isn't one in sight.

If I read your explanation properly, it is acceptable for an AMLU umpire to take that prime amateur job simply because he is available. Hmmmm, that sounds a lot like the replacements stepping in and working those MiLB games. Except that only one of those groups promised that they wouldn't do it. I can't wait to see how you try to explain this one.

Let's get a few facts straight & not relay on he/she said:

1. AMLU has stated that members are fine to work games booked before the strike (Those scheduled before spring training &/or before reporting to regular season assignment).

2. It's Ok to accept games no one else is available or willing to do.

So, if there is a game where no one else is available or willing you would prefer the game not be played? Now THAT's being a hypocrite!

I stated that I would check into the issue & respond back with facts and I will.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Let's get a few facts straight & not relay on he/she said:
Okay, let's...

1. AMLU has stated that members are fine to work games booked before the strike (Those scheduled before spring training &/or before reporting to regular season assignment).
Now that's not what the email I received said. In fact, for quite some time, the AMLU site had a plea to amateurs not to accept MiLB schedules. They argued that as professionals they would never undermine their brethren by working amateur games - EVEN IF THEY WERE ON STRIKE!

Multiple news stories had AMLU spokespersons stating that they are well prepared for a long strike and feel no need to work college or high school games in the mean time. If I'm not mistaken, a few of them came here to argue that as long as they were dues paying members of an association, they should be able to accept games. I agree...unless you remember that they said they wouldn't.

2. It's Ok to accept games no one else is available or willing to do.

Thanks...that is the argument for using replacement umpires instead of AMLU members. I believe that the AMLU guys made themselves unavailable and unwilling to do those games.

So, if there is a game where no one else is available or willing you would prefer the game not be played? Now THAT's being a hypocrite!

No, that's not the case at all. There are plenty of umpires that are available and desire those premium playoff assignments. If those AMLU boys were really altruistic, they would accept those rec ball assignments while the regular crews got their rewards for working hard all season. The AMLU guys are cherry picking and not just doing games 'no one wants'. Pass the doobie before your brain is completely fried.

I stated that I would check into the issue & respond back with facts and I will.

Please tell me that you won't use the same logic that you displayed here. Many of us have the messages from AMLU about not working and helping their cause. These chain letters were even printed in a few threads here. We know what we are talking about.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

2. It's Ok to accept games no one else is available or willing to do.

I agree. People should quit calling the guys working MiLB SCABS. They are simply accepting games that no one else is available or willing to do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I agree. People should quit calling the guys working MiLB SCABS. They are simply accepting games that no one else is available or willing to do.

Considering that the only people that are scabs are the people working games during a strike, I think the term fits perfectly. Working amateur games with no union and no strike are not out of bounds for anyone to work as an independent contractor. Oh well, are you going to cry the next time someone uses the word "scab?"

Peace

[DIV2ump]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Considering that the only people that are scabs are the people working games during a strike, I think the term fits perfectly. Working amateur games with no union and no strike are not out of bounds for anyone to work as an independent contractor. Oh well, are you going to cry the next time someone uses the word "scab?"

Gotta love that mentality-

1. It's not okay for guys to take work that AMLU umpires are refusing to do. They're "scabs."
2. It is okay for AMLU umpires to take work from umpires who usually do that work despite previously assuring everyone that this would not happen. (Does this make it okay for someone to post their pictures with childish comments?)

Heard something interesting, some AMLU insiders can maybe confirm it- supposedly AMLU leadership tried to convince Triple-A guys not to work as fill-ins at MLB to put pressure on MLB to get involved in the strike. The Triple-A guys told them to go chase themselves.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... Working amateur games with no union and no strike are not out of bounds for anyone to work as an independent contractor...

Then what do you call a union, who in order to drum up support from their "umpire brethern", promises to not work amatuer games (unless as a last minute fill in) but then goes ahead and takes amateur playoff/post season assignments???

How about hypocrits, liars, double talkers, or just plain a$$holes. We've yet to hear from anyone from the AMLU or anybody close/tied to them... what a surprise? You know why, cause many of the members have all but officially moved on in their own directions. Ok, that's fine. You (AMLU) guys do what you have to do and we (amateurs) will do what we have to do. No more "Umpire Brethern" - it's now EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES!

I have to admit - I believed in their cause and I supported them by not crossing... What a complete fool I was to think that they actually cared about us (amateurs). They just used us to increase their barganing power. Well guess what... the strike is no where near ended and now that the "cat is out of the bag", more and more umpires will cross in June, July and August and MiLB will have no need for the union anymore. I guess what goes around, comes around.

Despite their backstabbing, I still will not accept games until the union is officially discarded by MiLB. Then I will get my assignments through the proper channels.... because I won't stoop to the scum levels of certain AMLU members. Unlike them, when I say I won't do something, I stick to my word.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

This isn't a secret or a surprise. Those Trips have much to lose this season. We all know that five to eight WUA members are moving on and it's time for the rest to scramble. This strike hurt the Trips an awful lot.

[BenedictArnold]

Those AAA umpires working in the big leagues should be ashamed of themselves. Those guys haven't sacrificed a single thing for the AMLU. They worked the World Baseball Classic and spring training. Now they work in the big leagues. I don't care what anyone says, they should not be working those games while the other members of the union are sitting at home. I often do not make predictions, but I am willing to guess that if those guys refuse to work this thing will get resolved in a day or two. MLB will not sit back and let their umpires work 3 man or work with amateurs. If they did...here comes the players union screaming. And we all know what happens when the players union gets involved...MLB cracks. Lets hope something gets done with MiLB and AMLU without having to do this. But if they are still at home next week, they need to do this and those AAA guys working in the big leagues need to stop being selfish and sacrifice something. After all, this strike probably helped more of them than hurt them.

And again Sal, how does every man for themself help amateur umpires? The AMLU issued a statement...but I think it is obvious that that doesn't mean everyone signed off on that statement. Some of these guys have no ability to do anything else because they don't know how to do anything else. I think amateurs should still not work as replacements because there are fewer spots in pro ball every day than there are in every other kind of baseball in America on a daily basis. It is in everyones best interest to get those AMLU guys back to work. Then everyone can go back to working on their own goals and their own advancement.

Like I said before, we need to stop pointing fingers at eachother. Everyone sit back and take notice that baseball doesn't care about the AMLU guys or the amateur guys. They care about one entity, and one entity only...themselves. They are licking their chops at the thought of the common folk fighting with eachother. In fact, they are banking on it.

And if only a few AMLU guys are working those playoff games, call them out individually. One thing is for sure, if they all agreed to work playoff games there would be a lot more of them working. So give most of those guys a little credit Sal. Most of them have stayed true to their word. Just as you remain true to yours. I personally can't wait to see this thing get settled because I know a few guys very well and I care about them and their families. They are suffering in this more than anyone. More than someone who didn't recieve a playoff game and more than someone that has crossed a line. They are the ones that have to try to make ends meet any way possible because baseball doesn't care that a gallon of milk and a tank of gas costs more today than in 2000. Seriously, lets try to look at both sides before casting stones. It sucks for every umpire out there right now. I would venture to say that even the replacements have a greater appreciation for the life style after working these games. A couple guys I know that are making $100/game are now talking to eachother saying that they are underpaid for what they are doing. See what I mean? Baseball is laughing at every umpire in america right now. They know that guys like me and you are going to do what is best for us. The only problem is that some guys think that it is best to work as replacements and others think it is best to decline and hope this thing gets settled sooner rather than later.

Again, my apologies for the long post. I just can't seem to keep these things down to a couple paragraphs.

BA

[GarthB]

Somewhere, someplace, sometime someone psoted that Balkin' Bob Davidson, although an AAA umpire working up, is not, and has never been, a member of the AMLU.

Could this be true? Is MiLB an "open shop?" Do umpires have the choice to not belong to the bargaining unit?

How about the other AAA guys working vacation relief in the Majors. Are they members of the AMLU? If not, how can the AMLU demand they not work? And, what can the union MLB umpire be thinking about welcoming non-union Davidson back? The MLB umpires have repeatedly given their support to the AMLU. They can't be happy with Bob.

Is it possible that most of the support for the AMLU position is coming from MiLB umpires who know they have no chance of moving up to the Majors?

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

Those AAA umpires working in the big leagues should be ashamed of themselves. My sources tell me that they were not asked to step down, they were told that if MiLB refuses to offer something reasonable then they would be TOLD to step down. Your sources are wrong Div2ump, my sources are right. This is what did happen, and this is what should happen. Those guys haven't sacrificed a single thing for the union. They worked the World Baseball Classic and spring training. Now they work in the big leagues. I don't care what anyone says, they should not be working those games while the other members of the union are sitting at home. I often do not make predictions, but I am willing to guess that if those guys refuse to work this thing will get resolved in a day or two. MLB will not sit back and let their umpires work 3 man or work with amateurs. If they did...here comes the players union screaming. And we all know what happens when the players union gets involved...MLB cracks. Lets hope something gets done with MiLB and AMLU without having to do this. But if they are still at home next week, they need to do this and those AAA guys working in the big leagues need to stop being selfish and sacrifice something. After all, this strike probably helped more of them than hurt them.

And again Sal, how does every man for themself help amateur umpires? The AMLU issued a statement...but I think it is obvious that that doesn't mean everyone signed off on that statement. Some of these guys have no ability to do anything else because they don't know how to do anything else. I think amateurs should still not work as replacements because there are fewer spots in pro ball every day than there are in every other kind of baseball in America on a daily basis. It is in everyones best interest to get those AMLU guys back to work. Then everyone can go back to working on their own goals and their own advancement.

Like I said before, we need to stop pointing fingers at eachother. Everyone sit back and take notice that baseball doesn't care about the AMLU guys or the amateur guys. They care about one entity, and one entity only...themselves. They are licking their chops at the thought of the common folk fighting with eachother. In fact, they are banking on it.

And if only a few AMLU guys are working those playoff games, call them out individually. One thing is for sure, if they all agreed to work playoff games there would be a lot more of them working. So give most of those guys a little credit Sal. Most of them have stayed true to their word. Just as you remain true to yours. I personally can't wait to see this thing get settled because I know a few guys very well and I care about them and their families. They are suffering in this more than anyone. More than someone who didn't recieve a playoff game and more than someone that has crossed a line. They are the ones that have to try to make ends meet any way possible because baseball doesn't care that a gallon of milk and a tank of gas costs more today than in 2000. Seriously, lets try to look at both sides before casting stones. It sucks for every umpire out there right now. I would venture to say that even the replacements have a greater appreciation for the life style after working these games. A couple guys I know that are making $100/game are now talking to eachother saying that they are underpaid for what they are doing. See what I mean? Baseball is laughing at every umpire in america right now. They know that guys like me and you are going to do what is best for us. The only problem is that some guys think that it is best to work as replacements and others think it is best to decline and hope this thing gets settled sooner rather than later.

Again, my apologies for the long post. I just can't seem to keep these things down to a couple paragraphs.

BA

BA,
You make some good points. I'm just a little pissed off right now and I needed a place to vent. What bothers me the most is all I ever wanted to do is work ONE series at the AAA level to see what it was like and if I could handle it. Yet every pro or ex-pro I talked to said whether you work one game or 100 games, a scab is a scab and don't do it if you really want to support us (AMLU). So I struggled with it for about a week before declining the opportunity(s). Now I'm looking back and saying I probably missed the chance of a life time. Oh well.... atleast I can look at the "man in the glass" and go to sleep at nite knowing I did the right thing.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

And again Sal, how does every man for themself help amateur umpires?
I'm not Sal, but I'll ask you this...how does it hurt? Some amateur umpires are challenging themselves by accepting those replacement assignments. That is a good thing, as their skills will have to become finer. In most cases, amateur baseball is 'every man for himself'.

The AMLU issued a statement...but I think it is obvious that that doesn't mean everyone signed off on that statement.

Oh, come on... I received a half dozen pleas from individual AMLU members and was sent copies from friends of others. While I have long said that the union doesn't speak for everyone, many of them have the opportunity to dissent and not act like lemmings. This membership was almost completely on the same page in January and February. When the last minutes offers failed, a few started to sweat. Now, many others are seeing a sinking ship and trying to save some face.

Some of these guys have no ability to do anything else because they don't know how to do anything else.

What? These guys are typically under thirty and have had just a few years of professional ball under their belts. How can you possibly say that they can't do anything else. What do they do when they are released or choose to end the dream? Pack groceries, push a lawn mower, paint a wall, go to school and get a degree and act like an adult.

I think amateurs should still not work as replacements because there are fewer spots in pro ball every day than there are in every other kind of baseball in America on a daily basis.

This is not about amateurs assisting in the attainment of the dream. This is about guys abandoning that dream because they want more respect and money. Those games will still be played and the best available amateurs are seeing that they are handled to the best of their abilities. No one ever promised those pro school graduates a shot at the brass ring.

It is in everyones best interest to get those AMLU guys back to work.

No it is not...it is in the best interest of Andy and his brass to get them back out there. The replacements are losing nothing by filling in. The AMLU gang is taking the plums from the amateurs who are not working in their stead.

Then everyone can go back to working on their own goals and their own advancement.

That would be nice, but MiLB doesn't see it that way. They haven't brought a new offer to the table yet and the teams are getting ready to send their All Stars to the mid season showcase.

Like I said before, we need to stop pointing fingers at eachother. Everyone sit back and take notice that baseball doesn't care about the AMLU guys or the amateur guys.

Kindly separate the two...MiLB seems to be taking care of the replacements pretty well. They don't have any influence on local assoaciation management, so the comparison is futile.

They care about one entity, and one entity only...themselves. They are licking their chops at the thought of the common folk fighting with each other. In fact, they are banking on it.

That sounds like good business practice. Worry about the things you can control and forget about those you can't. The bottom line is the profit line and that is what all good business people know. Signing a contract for low wages is a poor business decision if your goal is to live comfortably.

And if only a few AMLU guys are working those playoff games, call them out individually. One thing is for sure, if they all agreed to work playoff games there would be a lot more of them working. So give most of those guys a little credit Sal.

Again, not every amateur is working as a replacement. If you insist on subjecting an entire group to ridicule and threats (yes, we recall those being tossed our way in March), then you have to accept that the same brush will be used to paint the AMLU gang.

Most of them have stayed true to their word. Just as you remain true to yours. I personally can't wait to see this thing get settled because I know a few guys very well and I care about them and their families. They are suffering in this more than anyone. More than someone who didn't recieve a playoff game and more than someone that has crossed a line. They are the ones that have to try to make ends meet any way possible because baseball doesn't care that a gallon of milk and a tank of gas costs more today than in 2000.

Please read what you wrote; no one forced those guys to sign a contract and no one forced them to go on strike. If they can't make ends meet, they can always ask to be released from their membership in the union and go another way. Further, a guy works his tail off all Spring - fifty games in the cold and rain - now it is time for him to get his due and an AMLU guy strolls in and takes the plum. You say that it is unimportant, but to many amateur umpires, those playoffs are their brass rings.

Seriously, lets try to look at both sides before casting stones. It sucks for every umpire out there right now. I would venture to say that even the replacements have a greater appreciation for the life style after working these games. A couple guys I know that are making $100/game are now talking to each other saying that they are underpaid for what they are doing.

I know of a couple that said that they work harder on a D1 game. A student of mine emailed me that he can't believe that he is getting paid to do this job. He gets to see some great ball and visit some cool parks.

See what I mean? Baseball is laughing at every umpire in america right now.

No, they are laughing at those who went on strike and are missing a nice season and throwing away their dreams.

Sal, you did what you believed was morally acceptable. If you are as talented as you say you are, then you did a disservice to every ball player, skipper and fan that may have enjoyed watching you work. I did not work games as a replacement either. But I know that if I gave my best effort to those people, I would have no problem sleeping at night. The game is bigger than any one participant.

[socalblue1]

Folks,

I promised an update as soon as I have facts from the individuals named in this post. I have spoken to two of the five so far and as soon as the ohters respond OR Wed night I will post.

As far as the AAA guys working MLB fill-in: This was a union choice made just before the WBC. It's now far too late to back out, as there is a valid agreement in place with MLB.

At least one poster has made what I fell is an accurate observation - had AMLU not approved the AAA umpires doing WBC, spring training or regular season this strike would have been settled long ago. This is my opinion & the AMLU may see things differently.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

BA,
You make some good points. I'm just a little pissed off right now and I needed a place to vent. What bothers me the most is all I ever wanted to do is work ONE series at the AAA level to see what it was like and if I could handle it. Yet every pro or ex-pro I talked to said whether you work one game or 100 games, a scab is a scab and don't do it if you really want to support us (AMLU). So I struggled with it for about a week before declining the opportunity(s). Now I'm looking back and saying I probably missed the chance of a life time. Oh well.... at least I can look at the "man in the glass" and go to sleep at nite knowing I did the right thing.

Putting your own ethics, integrity, and self respect, ahead of self desires is not an easy thing to do...But you did it. Be proud of that.

[BenedictArnold]

You can disagree with me and argue your points, but do not try to use my words against me WWTB. I cast no ill will, you are the only member that insists that he is always right. You try to say that these AMLU guys knew what they were getting into. No they didn't. This is the first negotiations to take place for this union. In this country, even the minimum wage is raised for our low class workers each year. You can never admit that someone has made a good point. You only say that they are getting what they deserved because they went on strike. As a member of an umpire union, you do not quit the union when the going gets tough. You stand beside each other and take the good with the bad. In the professional game, your reputation is more important than anything. Unlike the amateur field, it is not every man for themself. Sure there is competition, often very thick competition. But as you know, you live as a crew and you die as a crew. Respect and perception.

You cannot admit that a gallon of milk or gasoline was a lot cheaper in 2000 than 2006. You are an absolute joke. You should work as a replacement. You should do this because what you are doing is less noble. You sit at your computer and you feed off of those people that get upset with the AMLU. As Sal pointed out, he was upset and needed to vent. Then you sweep in like a predator to try and convince him that he should become a replacement. Where is the honor in that? Sal puts his name on his posts and I respect his opinion. I did not call him names and I tried to explain a different way to look at things. You remain negative and frankly, I don't care. In the end, Sal knows that I am trying to educate both professional umpires and amateur umpires through my own personal experience. I left baseball on my own terms. I am not bitter with baseball nor am I bitter with the AMLU. I want what is best for them and everyone else. You do not. You want to see them crumble so that you can sit and laugh and say "I told you so." In the end that may be the case and the union may fail. But the only guarantee is that you will be saying "I told you so" on this message board and you will never show your face. I remember the old days in the minor leagues. I even remember when you started off. Look at where you are now and ask yourself how you got there. It is not out of experience, it is out of hatred.

I have wasted too much time already on you. I refuse to stoop to your level. I will not take the bait and I will not engage in a discussion where you are always right and everyone else is always wrong (unless of course you are a replacement looking for some reassurance). To every replacement that reads this board, is this the kind of person you want defending what you are doing? I already know that answer.

WWTB, you do not need to respond to me. I already know your answers as well. I am not writing this to you, I am writing this so everyone else on this board can see what a one sided mind you are. Even though I know more than I am willing to share on this board, I nonetheless can also sleep at night. My reputation is very important to me and my dignity will never be compromised. You truly do not have a clue what you are talking about.

BA