Disappointed in AMLU

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they worked the regular season, then they should be able to work the post season like the rest of us. BTW, I worked a post season baseball game, so I was not affected.

Wow, high school or Junior College? Those assignments are horribly difficult to get in the Chicago area. In high school, every Certified and more than a few Registered officials are working the Regionals. The Juco smorgasbord invites almost anyone with a heartbeat and is available at noon.

Originally Posted by J.Rutledge

Lighten up my man. You cannot have it both ways. Many here have claimed the union umpires walked out on their jobs. If that is the case then they have the right to work whatever game they want to when they are available to work. If college umpires did not respect the union's position (and many did not) then you cannot go around being mad when they are passed up for post season games. Look, I did not say it would not be a problem or not make people upset. This was the reason I said to support the union members. This strike was going to affect everyone either directly or indirectly. I just think that you cannot take the high road when so many sold out to work a pro game of any kind.

That is the most insane bit of logic you've written in a long time! The amateurs made no promises and asked nothing of the AMLU pros. A few guys have decided to accept those minor league assignments, but the vast majority have no concern for the AMLU plight. The AMLU gang sent out mass appeals to say that they WOULD NEVER CONSIDER ACCEPTING NON-PROFESSIONAL ASSIGNMENTS WHILE ON STRIKE. Most locals bought this...that was until they started accepting local high school, JUCO and NCAA assignments. You are saying that because a few guys replaced those individuals, all bets are off. That is spoken like a man that can't find reason if it falls on him. By the way, who are the ' so many' who sold out. Can you name three guys locally who have accepted those assignments? I can think of several AMLU guys who have been working HS, and College games all Spring. The AMLU guys broke their word, the amateurs did not...end of story

Originally Posted by J.Rutledge

Look Sal, I feel your pain on this. I just think when you do things to undermine the union those actions would come back to bite you square in the ***. Did you actually think umpires were not going to ever work a single game? Now you might have been perfectly supportive, but there were not many that were loyal or respectful of the situation. The people you should be getting upset at are the many college umpires that decided to cross the line. We are all just umpires; we go where we are asked to go.

Again, who is it biting? A few guys replaced those umpires, that is all. The union rolled the dice and crapped out. Now they are struggling to find respect and income.

To answer your question - yes, they posted a message stating that they would never accept a non-professional assignment while on strike. That can't be more clear. They then went and broke that promise when they realized that PBUC and MiLB didn't really miss them.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is the case then they have the right to work whatever game they want to when they are available to work.

OK then - now that I know how the AMLU really feels about taking amateur assignments, then we are throwing out the "support thy brethern" clause and it's every umpire for themselves.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If college umpires did not respect the union's position (and many did not) then you cannot go around being mad when they are passed up for post season games.

I disagree, especially here in the midwest, where many of the more experience college umpires (D-I) did not cross. The games have been covered with high school and small college umpires at best - something the union wanted so that they would struggle on the field and perhaps strengthen the AMLU bargining position.

Bottom line Jeff, I don't think now is a time for people to start making excuses for the AMLU that it's ok for professional umpires to take amateur post season assignments PERIOD.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

OK then - now that I know how the AMLU really feels about taking amateur assignments, then we are throwing out the "support thy brethern" clause and it's every umpire for themselves.[/B]

Well it appears that was the attitude by everyone one else. Also it is a little over reaching to say what the AMLU supported. I know a lot of umpires that did not work hardly any games. I think this was an individual decision.

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

I disagree, especially here in the midwest, where many of the more experience college umpires (D-I) did not cross. The games have been covered with high school and small college umpires at best - something the union wanted so that they would struggle on the field and perhaps strengthen the AMLU bargining position.[/B]

Well there were some in this region of the country that did cross. There was someone from my association that crossed even with the fact that we had several minor league umpires in our association.

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

Bottom line Jeff, I don't think now is a time for people to start making excuses for the AMLU that it's ok for professional umpires to
take amateur post season assignments PERIOD.

Sal, I do not believe I am making excuses for anyone. I have an opinion about this issue and it happens not to be at lock step with you right now. I do not know of any rule that does not allow an umpire to work games they are assigned. To me your issue is with the people that made the assignments, not the umpires that took the assignments. Now what happens if these umpires cannot come back or decide not to come back? Do you think these umpires will not work any post season then?

Peace

[socalblue1]

So, there is RUMOR that one or more AMLU umpires have accepted NCAA post season assignments.

How about some names, conferences & assignments? I can assure everyone that I will ask the individuals directly & post the information here.

[BenedictArnold]

Just a few thoughts after reading this thread.


First, I do not know of any AMLU guys right now that are accepting post season assignments. One thing though, all of the D1 stuff in my area is just ending. So I guess I am just throwing out there that many replacement umpires may be speculating that this will happen to support their decision to work MiLB. Not too far fetched when you consider the many rumors that came out about guys getting threatening phone calls and other scare tactics directed at them, which were never confirmed. I guess all I am saying Sal is that you truly have to consider your source when it comes to allegations such as this. Like many have asked, give us names so that it can be confirmed. Along the same lines, I know of one D1 umpire that is working a post season assignment who has worked as a replacement. I am not naming him on this board because his decision is no different than an AMLU guy who works college. The best umpires get the assignments...period.

As another post stated, maybe it is every umpire for themself. But this is a two sided coin. Every guy out there that has worked MiLB as a replacement needs to at least consider that if this thing goes south as WWTB predicts, where will that leave all of these guys in the future? There will be an influx on AMLU guys looking to work every game they can. At this point a few have worked...imagine if they all did. Like I said, the best umpires get the assignments...period. I guess the argument here is that you should be careful what you wish for.

And don't go out there and make my comments look like a threat. I could care a less who works where. But I can tell you that when I walked away from MiLB I was offered a ton of D1 games. The money was great, but I declined at first because I needed to focus on my new career. Now, a few years later, I do work some games for the fun of it. Sure, the money is decent. But I just love umpiring. And every assignor that I work for is not afraid to send me to any game. My schedule now is pretty good, especially considering I turn down more assignments than I take. It all comes back to the same point. The best umpires get the assignments. This is not a pad on my own back, it is just my experience.

I have heard all the arguments...I have more experience....These young guys can't carry my jock...They call us Charlies....They are no better than the top D1 guys...etc... Can we please just accept the fact that these guys were willing to make umpiring their career. They have a right to fight for better wages. I said it before, they make a poverty wage. What they are asking for is still a poverty wage. This isn't a matter of knowing what they got into, this is a matter of baseball knowing who they hired. Some of these guys are pretty good. Baseball refuses to acknowledge that. Some of these guys are capable of working other jobs for a better wage but decline for a slight chance of making it to MLB. The problem here is that Baseball exploits that. If you can't see the hypocrisy in that then you truly do not have a concept of what life is like as a MiLB umpire.

As a final plea...stop pointing fingers. This is not the AMLU's fault, it is not society, it is not the college guys working as replacements. All that is going on here is that the very rich baseball people want to get richer. They do not care about their employees that they know will not be there in ten years. Every player and umpire will be gone in 10 years. They prey on this fact. They truly are horrible people for what they are doing. This is a 5 BILLION dollar a year industry. Go to any other BILLION dollar company and try to find an employee that starts off at $1800/month. You will be hard pressed. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find a single employee that starts off at $3500/month in a BILLION dollar company, and that is the top for the AMLU guys. This is rediculous. Stop pointing the fingers at each other. When this thing is over we will still be left with professional and amateur umpires. There will be many clinics to work. As another post so accurately stated, this wound will take a long time to heal. And this healing won't begin until baseball has sucked all of the blood out of both the pros and the amateurs.

To every replacement out there just know this, baseball will throw you to the curb as soon as this is resolved. In a year or two they will not remember your name. It will be on a list of guys willing to work in the event of a strike, but that is the only time they will call. So stop believing their stance that you are doing a noble thing for the thousands of workers out there at every ballpark in america. If baseball cared at all about the concession people in the parks and every other worker, they never would have rejected the AMLU offer just before the season started that only asked for a raise in per diem (still less than the government rate) and a $33 raise each year for the next 3 years. Yes, my sources are still accurate too. This was only an additional $400,000 a year for a 5 BILLION dollar company. For those of you a little shaky on the math...that is $5,000,000,000....that is a lot of zeros. And also know that the same people that pay the umpires (MiLB) do not pay the players, coaches and managers. Those people are payed by their MLB parent club. The moral of this story, and the crux of the AMLU argument, is that all of this money goes to a few people, the same people that pay the umpires. It is pathetic that people make the AMLU umpires out to be greedy. If they were holding out for $30K a year I can accept that argument. But in todays world these guys can barely go grocery shopping twice a month for their families. It truly is pathetic that baseball has managed to direct the attention from what they are doing to the umpires....instead they have the guys working pointing fingers at the guys that are on strike and vice versa. Like I said...PATHETIC!


I apologize for the length, I am tired and just started writing what I was thinking. Lets try to keep one thing in perspective through this whole thing. Next weekend is Memorial Day. For one day lets just do what is expected of all of us and honor every member of the armed forces that provide us with the freedom to choose and be free. In the grand scheme of things, this strike is insignificant.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Keeping a laptop on when you have to take a midnight stroll is a cause for more sleepless nights. Not tonight...

Minor League Baseball is NOT a 5 billion dollar industry.

I can name a dozen fortune 500 companies that offer minimum wage jobs to those they feel are worth it. A better comparison is the companies that pay seasonal wages that are miniscule and a slap in the face of the employee. No one forced them to take those jobs and yes, the job is seasonal.

Your last line was the most important. This strike has only affected the smallest fraction of sports fans, workers and administration. The fact that it hasn't been resolved should tell Andy all he needs to know. MiLB is holding a Royal Flush. The ranks are rumbling and the split will happen sooner than later. Hopefully a new group will form that will recognize their place in the game. Then they can back on the field and the amateurs can go back to their parks.

This strike could not have happened at a worse time for the union.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

So, there is RUMOR that one or more AMLU umpires have accepted NCAA post season assignments.

How about some names, conferences & assignments? I can assure everyone that I will ask the individuals directly & post the information here.

Angel Campos - AAA umpire and Steve Fritzoni - AA umpire worked the JUCO Regional in California. There are others as well.

Look, I don't care that they probably belong to the assosciation, pay their dues and worked quite a few games throughout the regular season. According to the AMLU, they were not supposed to do that. As I said before, I knew that was going on and I looked the other way thinking well maybe there is a shortage of JUCO umpires in that area.

However, when post season came around and their were many amateur guys waiting to see if they were going to get picked, I hoped that the AMLU guys would have repectfully defered their selection so that the amateur umpire would get a chance. As I mentioned earlier, I don't blame the assigner because he's just looking for the best available talent. The Professional umpire is the one who supposed to say "thanks for the work you have given me this spring and while I appreciate you asking me for the post season assignment, I want to give one of the amateur umpires a chance." Unfortuneatly, this wasn't the case.

SoCalBlue1, it will be interesting to see the explantion you get and I look forward to your post. However, I really don't see any reason that would suffice. I think you'll find out that these guys, along with quite a few others, aren't waiting around for the AMLU leadership anymore. There are just looking out for themselves. With that said, now that our college season is almost over, perhaps the majority of D-I umpires (who did not cross before)will now need to do what's best for themselves.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]I think people who assign umpires pick the best people. If you feel that someone "took your job" then it was not your job to begin with.

IMO most assignors while they might try and save their best crews for the important games, pick the umpires MOST AVAILABLE. Depending upon the size of one's organization assigning is a difficult and tedious task.

Basically all an assignor wants to hear from an official is:

YES.

In a nutshell, I disagree with your statement that people who assign pick the best people. For the most part they pick the people who are available.

Example: you could be a TOP rated official but if you are "picky", no matter how good you are, the assignor is eventually going to get tired of hearing the word NO and will move on.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

[I]

In a nutshell, I disagree with your statement that people who assign pick the best people. For the most part they pick the people who are available.

Example: you could be a TOP rated official but if you are "picky", no matter how good you are, the assignor is eventually going to get tired of hearing the word NO and will move on.

Pete Booth

Peter,

I think we agree more than you think we do. I have been saying this for years. It is certain individuals that think everyone is clamoring to work a post season game that they would sell their soul to get an assignment. I just know that a lot of umpires are not available for college ball for this very reason. Not everyone can work a 12:00 on a Monday.

Peace

[left coast]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

So, there is RUMOR that one or more AMLU umpires have accepted NCAA post season assignments.

How about some names, conferences & assignments? I can assure everyone that I will ask the individuals directly & post the information here.

Jason Milsap--Texas JUCO Regional

Jason Stein and Lance Barrett have applied to work in the Texas Collegiate League (wood bat summer league).

[Durham]

Sal,

If SoCal and BA are who they say they are then, they know who is working where. I understand your frustration, but there is no reason to single out 2 guys when there is at least 20. If SoCal and BA don't believe you, then fine, but they should already know which guys are working playoffs at the HS, JC, conference championship level.

Sal, if you supported the guys because you thought they were all going to support you then do what you have to do. Like every one of us, you just have to make a decision that you can live with. Like I said in our email, good luck with the rest of your season and this summer.

Left Coast, if you are going to to name people and not just give us your opinion then please give us your's so we know where the credit can go.

[left coast]

Originally Posted by Durham

Sal,

If SoCal and BA are who they say they are then, they know who is working where. I understand your frustration, but there is no reason to single out 2 guys when there is at least 20. If SoCal and BA don't believe you, then fine, but they should already know which guys are working playoffs at the HS, JC, conference championship level.

Sal, if you supported the guys because you thought they were all going to support you then do what you have to do. Like every one of us, you just have to make a decision that you can live with. Like I said in our email, good luck with the rest of your season and this summer.

Left Coast, if you are going to to name people and not just give us your opinion then please give us your's so we know where the credit can go.

I was merely answering the question that was posed.

I do have a question for the union guys out there. I have never been in a union and do not have much knowledge about them. If someone is in a carpenter's union and they go on strike, would it be OK for that carpenter to go to a non-union shop and work? I am not trying to throw any gas on any fires, I just don't know. As far as whether the AMLU guys should work or not, that is the same decision that the guys who crossed the picket lines were faced with. Everyone needs to do what they feel is right for their own individual situation.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by left coast

I was merely answering the question that was posed.

I do have a question for the union guys out there. I have never been in a union and do not have much knowledge about them. If someone is in a carpenter's union and they go on strike, would it be OK for that carpenter to go to a non-union shop and work? I am not trying to throw any gas on any fires, I just don't know. As far as whether the AMLU guys should work or not, that is the same decision that the guys who crossed the picket lines were faced with. Everyone needs to do what they feel is right for their own individual situation.

Then answer this one! Do you feel it is ok to post others' names and not your own?

As for the union question I cannot answer it, because while I was an AMLU memeber and I am a teacher's union memeber, I am not a strong union person. But I know Sal personally and I know Angel personally, and I personally know several other AMLU guys that worked non-pro games this year and guys that worked and are working as replacement and I still consider all of them friends. This thing will end one way or another and if one party has a problem with a specific other, then call them and talk to them, don't post their name here.

SoCal, you are an AMLU suppoter, why would you post that question here and not with the AMLU guys?

[left coast]

Originally Posted by Durham

Then answer this one! Do you feel it is ok to post others' names and not your own?

As for the union question I cannot answer it, because while I was an AMLU memeber and I am a teacher's union memeber, I am not a strong union person. But I know Sal personally and I know Angel personally, and I personally know several other AMLU guys that worked non-pro games this year and guys that worked and are working as replacement and I still consider all of them friends. This thing will end one way or another and if one party has a problem with a specific other, then call them and talk to them, don't post their name here.

SoCal, you are an AMLU suppoter, why would you post that question here and not with the AMLU guys?

socalblue1 appears to be informed, and I have no reason to believe he isn't. He asked for information, and I supplied him with it. That is very different that arbitrarily listing names (and pictures) on the internet. Who I am is irrelevant to this discussion, somebody asked for information; I had what he asked for, and gave it to him. That's all.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by left coast

socalblue1 appears to be informed, and I have no reason to believe he isn't. He asked for information, and I supplied him with it. That is very different that arbitrarily listing names (and pictures) on the internet. Who I am is irrelevant to this discussion, somebody asked for information; I had what he asked for, and gave it to him. That's all.

I did ask for the details and WILL research and respond just as soon as I have accurate answers.

I do know of a small number of assignments that were given simply because one or more AMLU umpires were available when others were not (IE: Monday at 12:00pm). The umpires in this instance are members of the group amd were long before they went to school & were hired by MiLB.