What is going to happen to MiLB now?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by MrB

Tim,

I know this is true for most unions, but why then are AMLU memebers released every year?

I have no idea why the AMLU members would have allowed such a clause to be included in their contract unless they simply had no choice. I suppose we could compare it to similar union contracts that provide for mandatory early retirement, but that might be a stretch.


Tim.

[dokeeffe]

It's more than D1 and ex-pros that are doing games. Lower level college guys and even high school umpires are currently working. A manager from Clearwater FL was quoted the other day as saying that he had not seen all that much difference between the replacement umpires and the striking guys. True, that isn't AAA but still.....

It doesn't look like the gate has been hurt by the strike. So................. what does MiLB have to gain by further talks?

I did spring traing MiLB game here in FL and asked a number of players from rookie to AAA what was the biggest difference thay saw. You may be surprised that the comment I heard most was that we were "more approachable". For the most part we were all older guys - more mature - but maybe more importantly, having a ball doing these games. No attitudes, no having anything to prove. I've heard from guys doing the FL State League that they hear the "approachable" thing there as well.

At this time MiLB baseball does not "need" the striking umpires. These young men need to be carefull. This could carry on for some time (a year or more) or the union could find itself with no authority. Trust me, there will always be umpires that will call ball in the minor leagues. Their skill will improve as they do more games. As they do more games, MiLB will be less inclined to do ANYTHING for the striking umpires.

[Thatballzlow]

Tim,
The Minor League system will start over and all of the leagues from Rookie to AA will be turned over to Regional Assignors throughout the country. They will work with the League Presidents to provide umpires as independent contractors (similar to the assignments we get for college baseball).

The AMLU will eventually dissolve and the guys will come back individually, working games at all levels (except AAA) according to what's available around where you live. They will have to go through their regional assignor to get games but I'm sure they will get first crack at whatever they want since they are the most experienced/qualified to work those games. The big jump will probably be from A/AA to AAA, or when you go from being an independent contractor working within a certain geographical area to being a full time AAA umpire with an outside chance at working in the bigs.
For what it's worth...oh, God, why I am responding to this...there is one problem about the regional assignors...

If you think the assignors will be college assignors, you are very, very wrong. I have been contacted to be one of these regional assignors, with my decade-plus experience. There seems to be this feeling that this is going to open the door to anyone and everyone. The big problem is, if I take this job in a league that I can't mention under penalty of death , I will not hire people based on how well they kiss my ***. If you think it was hard to get into professional baseball before...haha...you better be very, very, very good to get any kind of schedule.

I would suggest if you'd like to work in this league...and suffice it to say it's above A ball, you might consider umpire school this winter. Also, if the union is broken, I have permission, should I take the job, to rehire those umpires, with exceptions based on attitude, as I see fit.

So, MiLB is looking to get these guys back, but, like you said, at their terms.

Good luck to all

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by MrB

Jiggy,

Ok, for get about the high school umpire, and the older ncaa guys that you classified as 15 lbs overweight. Could you work? Not would you work, but could you work? Are you still good enough? Are there more former pro guys than current ones that could work, not would, but could? Now lets consider the top level DI guys, the 100 or so regional guys and the evn larger number that are good enough just haven't broken through yet. Like someone pointed out, there are some weak spots, areas where either guys aren't working or there aren't guys good enough, but if it is the first, then could it be improved by a new system. Like Sal said, it is probably best for all to have a system where guys don't have to give up their life if the can work regionally until it is time to get a look for the bigs. Different yes, but maybe better?

I understand your argument. And the answer is YES there are guys out there that are qualified (ex pro guys for instance) and would be able to do the job (do understand that most of them have "moved on" with their lives and would not really want to come back).

The problem with assigning professional umpires in essentially the same way high school or college umpires are assigned is this: THE BEST UMPIRES AREN'T NECESSARILY THE ONES PUT ON THE FIELD. There is a huge problem nationwide pertaining to the "politics" of high school and college assigning (not to say there aren't "politics" in pro ball, just that the playing field is much more level for a guy who isn't "connected" to get in). Assignors at the high school and college levels are not necessarily those who have the most expertise either as an official or as an evaluator of umpiring talent. Decisions are made far more often based on "who you know" vs. "what you know" and guys who are qualified get left out every year while others who aren't get full schedules because of the friends they keep. There tends to be a significantly higher average age of umpires in high school and college ball due to that reason- the "inner circle" in whatever league or conference will never be forced to make way for younger qualified (sometimes more qualified) umpires. This is a problem in a system like the minor leagues, where umpires are supposed to be getting groomed for MLB (imagine a minor league system with an average starting age near 40- those aren't good MLB candidates- not to say older umpires aren't good umpires, just that how many years do you have left to be athletic in the minors? It takes usually 8-10 years to develop a minor league umpire into a major league one.Is it worth hiring a guy in MLB who is going to retire in 10 years? ).

There also is an issue of maintaining a minimum standard of quality of umpiring, meaning:

PBUC is a nationwide minor league-wide program with the purpose of making sure every minor league umpire has been taught the same thing, and performs the same way. This is very much not the case at the high school and college levels, as even basic mechanics and terminology vary greatly from league to league conference to conference assignor to assignor. You get people who have no business teaching others anything giving their opinion on mechanics, rules interpretation, etc and guys must pay attention because they won't get games otherwise.

As appealing as the idea of going to work minor league ball in the evenings and coming back home every night is, there are far too many reasons why it would not work very well (or would work but at the detriment of the quality of umpiring or at least consistency of umpiring from area to area).

The PBUC system isn't perfect, but its not all bad either, and it has been and still is a far better way to do things compared to high school and college baseball.

[MrB]

Originally Posted by JIGGY

I understand your argument. And the answer is YES there are guys out there that are qualified (ex pro guys for instance) and would be able to do the job (do understand that most of them have "moved on" with their lives and would not really want to come back).

The problem with assigning professional umpires in essentially the same way high school or college umpires are assigned is this: THE BEST UMPIRES AREN'T NECESSARILY THE ONES PUT ON THE FIELD. There is a huge problem nationwide pertaining to the "politics" of high school and college assigning (not to say there aren't "politics" in pro ball, just that the playing field is much more level for a guy who isn't "connected" to get in). Assignors at the high school and college levels are not necessarily those who have the most expertise either as an official or as an evaluator of umpiring talent. Decisions are made far more often based on "who you know" vs. "what you know" and guys who are qualified get left out every year while others who aren't get full schedules because of the friends they keep. There tends to be a significantly higher average age of umpires in high school and college ball due to that reason- the "inner circle" in whatever league or conference will never be forced to make way for younger qualified (sometimes more qualified) umpires. This is a problem in a system like the minor leagues, where umpires are supposed to be getting groomed for MLB (imagine a minor league system with an average starting age near 40- those aren't good MLB candidates- not to say older umpires aren't good umpires, just that how many years do you have left to be athletic in the minors? It takes usually 8-10 years to develop a minor league umpire into a major league one.Is it worth hiring a guy in MLB who is going to retire in 10 years? ).

There also is an issue of maintaining a minimum standard of quality of umpiring, meaning:

PBUC is a nationwide minor league-wide program with the purpose of making sure every minor league umpire has been taught the same thing, and performs the same way. This is very much not the case at the high school and college levels, as even basic mechanics and terminology vary greatly from league to league conference to conference assignor to assignor. You get people who have no business teaching others anything giving their opinion on mechanics, rules interpretation, etc and guys must pay attention because they won't get games otherwise.

As appealing as the idea of going to work minor league ball in the evenings and coming back home every night is, there are far too many reasons why it would not work very well (or would work but at the detriment of the quality of umpiring or at least consistency of umpiring from area to area).

The PBUC system isn't perfect, but its not all bad either, and it has been and still is a far better way to do things compared to high school and college baseball.

You are absolutely correct the PBUC system isn't all bad.

You and I and many others got to go through it, learn from it, and become better umpires for it. But life in a new system will go on, and not at the expense of throwing away an entire life, we both know true career minor league umpires that the system chewed up and spit out and after 20 years in, then out, are working games again, b/c that is what they know and what they have.

As for politics, there is politics in everything we do, and the game taught us both, that we could only control how hard we work and how well we do. The guys that are going to work in MLB are going to get there one way or another.

The road was great, but like you stated, how nice would it be to sleep in your own bed and hold your girl and see your kid after a night out with the boys, working at the yard.

[SAump]

I resemble that. I get the same comments doing JV ball. I'm approachable.
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"(hint- the group of guys who suddenly think that at 45 years old, 15lbs overweight, and without umpire school training that they will be given "a shot" because of the strike are very very sadly not in touch with reality.)"
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This ARGUMENT (US not being qualified) is about as DRY AS TOAST by NOW.
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I resemble that 15 lbs UP at a healthy 250. Add another 20 lbs loss and I may bottom at 215 (NAH). I keep passing UP on taking a SHOT because it isn't a very good one (LOW PAY). Let me find an OPENING for an assist.

Why don't YOU AMLU-types try to REFOCUS on REAL (T)ISSUES. I cannot think of a VALID REASON for you to consistently slam on HS, JV and LL UMPS. It must make you feel better to slam US and to get that off your chest. I hope you feel better at our expense. You're either too damn scared to focus on yourself and your own problems, or to damn stupid to contribute to anything like a valid opinion or solution. I hope this advice helps you straighten out some of your personal feelings.
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[SAump]

You paint with a BROAD brush.
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There also is an issue of maintaining a minimum standard of quality of umpiring, meaning:

The good umpires want more money. Every league/level faces this problem and does the best with what they have.
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PBUC is a nationwide minor league-wide program with the purpose of making sure every minor league umpire has been taught the same thing, and performs the same way.

Most good umpires go through PRO-level training programs and pay $$$ for the opportunity to do it. Every league/level faces this problem and does the best with what they have.
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This is very much not the case at the high school and college levels, as even basic mechanics and terminology vary greatly from league to league conference to conference assignor to assignor.

That is a stretch. We all start with the basics and only get BETTER. I suppose it wouldn't hurt if the top dogs meet every so often to iron out those differences. Oh, they DO!
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You get people who have no business teaching others anything giving their opinion on mechanics, rules interpretation, etc and guys must pay attention because they won't get games otherwise.

BIGUMP56 felt the same way about a BABE RUTH clinic. Every league/level faces this problem and does the best with what they have.
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As appealing as the idea of going to work minor league ball in the evenings and coming back home every night is, there are far too many reasons why it would not work very well (or would work but at the detriment of the quality of umpiring or at least consistency of umpiring from area to area).

Chain gangs are very productive, but experience has a PRICE. Every league/level faces this problem and does the best with what they have.
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The PBUC system isn't perfect, but its not all bad either, and it has been and still is a far better way to do things compared to high school and college baseball.

You must not read very WELL. Don't you read the threads.
Headline NEWS: MLB UMP KICKS ANOTHER CALL, PRO UMP reacts like a DUCK out of water.
Things are better now than 20 years ago. That doesn't mean things are so great.
Every league/level faces this problem and does the best with what they have.