Score the run on Balk?

[bossman72]

OBR

R1, R3 and 2 outs. Pitcher balks and delivers to the batter as R1 is stealing on the pitch. Both F2 and R1 don't realize a balk has been called and F2 throws down to 2nd to get the stealing R1 while R3 hangs around 3rd. R1 overruns the base and is tagged out for out #3.

So, does R3 score automatically because of the balk, or is this a time play?

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by bossman72

OBR

R1, R3 and 2 outs. Pitcher balks and delivers to the batter as R1 is stealing on the pitch. Both F2 and R1 don't realize a balk has been called and F2 throws down to 2nd to get the stealing R1 while R3 hangs around 3rd. R1 overruns the base and is tagged out for out #3.

So, does R3 score automatically because of the balk, or is this a time play?

THAT'S A BALK...(SMACK INTO THE GLOVE)...TIME! THAT'S A BALK!- YOU SCORE, YOU 2ND BASE. GIVE COUNT MINUS PITCH DELIVERED ON BALK. STILL 2 OUTS.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by PWL

Just curious, is there anyway to get an out after a balk call?

YUP...YUP THERE IS...

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by PWL

About the only way I can think of is if the offensive team had rather have the play where an out was made where it would be more to their advantage than the balk call itself. However, in FED it would be a mute point. Ain't nuthin' happening on a balk whatsoever.

No choice on a balk. It is enforced or ignored based on what follows. In the posted play, it must be enforced, just like JIGGY said.

If the batter and all runners advance one base the balk is ignored, so what happens after that could include an out. Also, if a throw following a balk is wild and a runner attempts to advance beyond the base he is entitled to, he is in jeopardy.

Two examples:
R1, R3, balk is called on the delivery. Batter spanks a single into right field and R1 is thrown out at third. That out stands.

Or, R1, pitcher balks trying to pick the runner and throws the ball down the right field side. R1 easliy reaches second and tries to get third, but is thrown out. That out stands.

So, on a balk, enforce or ignore. You're thinking of catcher's interference (FED: obstruction). Also in FED/NCAA, use of an illegal glove may result in a choice.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

No choice on a balk. It is enforced or ignored based on what follows. In the posted play, it must be enforced, just like JIGGY said.

If the batter and all runners advance one base the balk is ignored, so what happens after that could include an out. Also, if a throw following a balk is wild and a runner attempts to advance beyond the base he is entitled to, he is in jeopardy.

Two examples:
R1, R3, balk is called on the delivery. Batter spanks a single into right field and R1 is thrown out at third. That out stands.

Or, R1, pitcher balks trying to pick the runner and throws the ball down the right field side. R1 easliy reaches second and tries to get third, but is thrown out. That out stands.

So, on a balk, enforce or ignore. You're thinking of catcher's interference (FED: obstruction). Also in FED/NCAA, use of an illegal glove may result in a choice.

jeez, ya coulda left em hangin for at least a little longer, let some others jump in and give their wacky versions first

[bossman72]

Ok, ok, slightly modify original situation:

It's a passed ball instead of F2 catching it.

[UmpJM]

bossman72,

It's really pretty much the same answer. If both runners advance at least one base (you would include the Batter if he became a runner on the pitch; e.g. a Ball Four, 3rd strike not caught with 2 out or 1B open), the Balk is disregarded. If that condition is met and a runner is put out after reaching his advance base, that out would stand.

If all runners do not advance at least one base safely (including the batter if he became a runner on the pitch), the balk is enforced, the pitch is disregarded and the same batter is at the plate with the same count as prior to the "balked" pitch.

In your original sitch, R3 is going to score one way or another. There cannot be a "run nullifying" 3rd out on the play that stands. There could be something wacky like the R3 missing home plate, and the defense subsequently executing a successful appeal, but absent any baserunning infractions, the R3 scores.

No options on this one.

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

bossman72,
If all runners do not advance at least one base safely (including the batter if he became a runner on the pitch), the balk is enforced, the pitch is disregarded and the same batter is at the plate with the same count as prior to the "balked" pitch.

JM

Of course, you mean "not all runners advance at least one base safely..."

The provision of this rule requires enforcing the balk if ANY runner does not attain his advance base, not (just) when ALL fail to do so.

Logic final exam is tomorrow.

[bossman72]

Well, i was thinking more along the lines of the approved ruling where the runner advances beyond the base he was awarded at his own risk. Since R1 overran the base on a wild throw, wouldn't he be in jeopardy of being put out?

[Thatballzlow]

The way to think of it is what Jiggy said...The "wild throw" was by the catcher...who caught the ball...so the throw by rule never happened

[bossman72]

Well, on the passed ball, the wild throw was by the pitcher

[UmpJM]

bossman72,

It is certainly possible for the defense to record an out on your "wild pitch" variation. If the R3 advances home safely and the R1 is thrown out by the catcher after reaching 2B, the out would stand and the balk would be disregarded (assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that the batter did not become a runner on the wild pitch.)

JM

[Thatballzlow]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Well, on the passed ball, the wild throw was by the pitcher

No, I meant that in the original play, the catcher caught the ball and threw wildly...meaning the original pitch was normal...yeah, on your scenario with the passed ball, that would be alive and in play until someone is put out BEFORE advancing one base...absolutely

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

bossman72,

It is certainly possible for the defense to record an out on your "wild pitch" variation. If the R3 advances home safely and the R1 is thrown out by the catcher after reaching 2B, the out would stand and the balk would be disregarded (assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that the batter did not become a runner on the wild pitch.)

JM

So, bottom line, if R2 overslid 2nd in the original play (with wild pitch modification) and was tagged out before R3 crossed home, you WOULD score the run because R3 is awarded home????