Hockey Style masks or Traditional??

[Tim C]

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

Yeah? Would you like to explain how you think this not the case? It is a proven fact that umpires hit while wearing the helmet vs. traditional mask sustain fewer and or less severe concussions and compression injuries. This is so much true that PBUC now reccomends the helmet.

[Tim C]

First of all FS let me talk to wearing the mask correctly.

IF the mask hanges from your face and is not too tight, the engineerning is for the mask to spin or fly off at contact.

I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

I have worn a mask for decades and when worn correctly all energy is displaced before hitting your face (jaw) . . . I don't expect you to understand that.

My point, for those that do understand, is if worn correctly there is little to no energy displaced to your face (jaw).

Of course this is just my opinion (and that of EVERY mask engineer) . . . but Jiggy you know everything.

Regards,

PS:

Please give me documented proof of your statement that HSM umpires recieve less injuires.

I'm waiting.

[UMP25]

Guys, Tim is correct when he describes the mask flying off or spinning off.

I've been hit with some pretty damn hard foul balls as well as direct pitches. Sometimes the balls have hit me straight on, sometimes they've hit the side/top/bottom of the mask. In each situation, I "felt" the hit, but not in a negative or painful manner.

I use the GD new view mask and love it and have had no problems with it when it has been hit hard.

[DG]

I had an inside fastball hit be directly in my mask last year and it jumped off my head and landed at my feet. By the time it landed I was asking the catcher "is that the best you can do?".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JIGGY

Yeah? Would you like to explain how you think this not the case? It is a proven fact that umpires hit while wearing the helmet vs. traditional mask sustain fewer and or less severe concussions and compression injuries. This is so much true that PBUC now reccomends the helmet.

Can you please provide support for both statements ("it's a proven fact ..." and "PBUC recommends ...")? Thanks.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

i definitely agree. this man speaks the truth.

[SAump]

Read this link, http://www.reegind.com/helmet.htm, given earlier.
Marketing AD 101 sounds comical to me.

Only 2 things are likely to happen and remotely close to sound advice:
1) You will get hit on the nose, and 2) you should add a throat guard.

Black HSM is NOT COOLER. Your head is losing a significant amount of heat. The 100 degree air feels COOLER because the TEMP above your head inside the mask is much WARMER. Place an expensive pair of sun glasses over your head on a warm day after a brief jog and see if water has not condensed on the lense. HEAT.

"There is a reason why most catchers have switched and why Hockey has been using them for years."

Well, yeah, they play INDOORS over ICE and the TEMP is below 70 degrees.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

Tim,

I'm afraid your reputation does nothing for you on this one. I have enough Mechanical Engineering experience to confidently say, you are DEAD WRONG.

Think about it; A mask has two pads, where the contact points are the Forehead and Jaw, for a properly fitted and worn mask. Now your going to actually state, in public, with a straight face, that the energy from a ball hitting a mask is not going to be transfered to the ONLY two contact points, the Forehead and Jaw ?

Where is it going to be transfered to, your cup ?

Here is the crux of the debate;

Old guys = Mask

Young guys = Helmet

The young guys are going to win this one, because the old guys are going to die before the young guys. I am 47, and I have been wearing a mask since I was 44 (still a young guy).

But keep fighting for your right to wear a mask. Just make sure your argument is valid. I would even accept, "I refuse to try it, think about it, or watch someone wearing one." At least it would be sincere.

[Tim C]

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that I was against wearing the HSM.

That's old news.

I am simply saying that mask manufacturers believe that a mask should work much like an F1 race car and disapate the energy of the strike by having the mask spin or fly off your face.

Even the MLB guy (sorry Nick I forget which one) that was injured last year admitted freely that he had been wearing his mask "too tight."

I have passed the emotional side of iffin' a guy wears a HSM or traditional mask . . . I see you haven't.

Regards,

[GrizzlyUmp14]

I have always worn the hockey-style mask. I had a foul ball hit my shoulder pad and bounced toward my head. Luckily, it deflected off part of my helmet and just barely hit my face. If I was wearing a traditional mask, I'm sure it would have been a lot worse. I love the increased protection and I feel that I have excellent vision (which is really important!)

[greymule]

I guess I wore the mask correctly, because mine often spun, sometimes completely off, when a pitch hit it right, and I can't remember ever really getting my bell rung (except once from a thrown bat). This year I decided to get the All-Star UMP2000 helmet. On the plus side: better vision; protection on the back, top, and sides—not a trivial benefit; quite comfortable; definitely less jolt. The minuses: harder to remove (though with the vision it provides, you can leave it on); harder to get on, as you have to see that the straps are straight, and then you have to position the back plate; and the worst thing about it, a very loud rattle in the ears if the pitch hits the cage hard. We haven't had any hot days yet here in NJ, so I can't comment on how it will feel in August.

Guy around here found his grandfather's mask from the 1930s. No way did that one get spun. It felt as if it must have weighed 6 or 8 pounds.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by greymule

...I can't remember ever really getting my bell rung (except once from a thrown bat).

Were you umpiring Delmon Young at the time?

[nickrego]

A Mask is not going to spin off if you take a direct hit, say from an untouched fastball. Your Forehead and Jaw are going to take all the energy, and you are going to feel it.

Yes, if a ball hits you from an angle, like a foul ball, or a ball that grazes off the catcher, your mask will spin off, and take some of the energy with it. But who wants a rug burn, and a bent nose from that ?

Look, wear what you will, I don't care. But just as if we were talking about a RULE, we need to get the facts correct, for those who have no experience with both pieces of equipment. There just is no comparison of the way the ball's energy is transfered between a Mask vs. Helmet. They are engineered differently.

If someone was stating inaccurate information about a chest protector, I was take the same stance. It is important that the information on this board is accurate, and informative. Just trying to do my part.

[bellsjc]

I have always used a mask. I have used the Plus Pos Zero Grav. for three years now. I love the fact that it is very light and the single bar gives me a pretty good field of view. For some reason this year, I have been getting killed behind the plate. I have been doing mostly Varsity ball so I can't blame the catchers. Almost all of my hits have been fouls. At my game this past Monday, I took a foul off my right forearm. I usually don't bruise real easily but this thing got ugly. I was showing it off to my partner last night and told him to take notice as to where I was setting up because I was getting killed this year. He reached into his trunk and pulled out the HSM he got this year. I showed him my zero grav. and he said he liked how light it was but would never go back to the mask. Well the game progressed and once again I took a beating. I got hit in the shoulder from a foul that bounced off the close back stop. Took two fouls off the mask, and the decisive blow was a ball in the dirt, that the catcher never touched. It bounced up and hit me on the right side of my jaw! If I had on a HSM I don't think it could have got me. Next year I will look for the best, lightest HSM on the market. If any of you can recommend one, please give a hollar. I don't care how much it costs I want the lightest one possible.