Hockey Style masks or Traditional??

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I guess this boils down to the "increased protection" vs. "comfort" debate. To me it is just personal preference.

Bob P.

There is no debate here, at least not that I have read.

No one denies the increased protection.

As for comfort, helmet feels lighter on your head, no weight hanging off the front of your face, easier to remove, much cooler than a wool cap, able to speak clearly (no pressure on your chin), etc.

The big debate is usually Traditional Look vs. Robo Ump look. I think this debate is debunk at this point, because the "look" has been excepted at all upper levels from College to MLB.

And, I have never had a coach, player, or colleague, comment negatively about me or my umpiring with regard to my helmet. Either you suck, or you don't. (left myself open for you flamers) If you don't suck, nobody even sees, or cares, what equipment you use.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by nickrego

There is no debate here, at least not that I have read.

No one denies the increased protection.

im not denying the increased protection, its definitely there, but not all of us need protection on the top, back, and sides of our head

the mask will do just fine for me, and i have no problems with it. when properly adjusted and used with proper head techniques (ie. not moving), an umpire wearing a regular mask will be just fine.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well briancurtain, you are a young buck on the way up, and you only need protection in the front.

Some of us work lower levels, or have taken an intentional move down in level, as in my case. The other day I had a ball ricochet off of a close backstop and nail me in the back of the head. I was very glad to have been wearing a helmet.

And even if you don't need protection on the top, back, and sides, there is a definite increase in protection to the face as well. Shots do not ring any bells as they do with the best of conventional masks. They feel like a gnat flew up against your mask.

[Tim C]

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

Yeah? Would you like to explain how you think this not the case? It is a proven fact that umpires hit while wearing the helmet vs. traditional mask sustain fewer and or less severe concussions and compression injuries. This is so much true that PBUC now reccomends the helmet.

[Tim C]

First of all FS let me talk to wearing the mask correctly.

IF the mask hanges from your face and is not too tight, the engineerning is for the mask to spin or fly off at contact.

I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

I have worn a mask for decades and when worn correctly all energy is displaced before hitting your face (jaw) . . . I don't expect you to understand that.

My point, for those that do understand, is if worn correctly there is little to no energy displaced to your face (jaw).

Of course this is just my opinion (and that of EVERY mask engineer) . . . but Jiggy you know everything.

Regards,

PS:

Please give me documented proof of your statement that HSM umpires recieve less injuires.

I'm waiting.

[UMP25]

Guys, Tim is correct when he describes the mask flying off or spinning off.

I've been hit with some pretty damn hard foul balls as well as direct pitches. Sometimes the balls have hit me straight on, sometimes they've hit the side/top/bottom of the mask. In each situation, I "felt" the hit, but not in a negative or painful manner.

I use the GD new view mask and love it and have had no problems with it when it has been hit hard.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JIGGY

Yeah? Would you like to explain how you think this not the case? It is a proven fact that umpires hit while wearing the helmet vs. traditional mask sustain fewer and or less severe concussions and compression injuries. This is so much true that PBUC now reccomends the helmet.

Can you please provide support for both statements ("it's a proven fact ..." and "PBUC recommends ...")? Thanks.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

i definitely agree. this man speaks the truth.

[SAump]

Read this link, http://www.reegind.com/helmet.htm, given earlier.
Marketing AD 101 sounds comical to me.

Only 2 things are likely to happen and remotely close to sound advice:
1) You will get hit on the nose, and 2) you should add a throat guard.

Black HSM is NOT COOLER. Your head is losing a significant amount of heat. The 100 degree air feels COOLER because the TEMP above your head inside the mask is much WARMER. Place an expensive pair of sun glasses over your head on a warm day after a brief jog and see if water has not condensed on the lense. HEAT.

"There is a reason why most catchers have switched and why Hockey has been using them for years."

Well, yeah, they play INDOORS over ICE and the TEMP is below 70 degrees.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"The traditional mask, because of how it is worn, transfers the impact to the forehead and more so the chin (jaw)."

This is not a true statement if you wear your traditional mask correctly.

Tim,

I'm afraid your reputation does nothing for you on this one. I have enough Mechanical Engineering experience to confidently say, you are DEAD WRONG.

Think about it; A mask has two pads, where the contact points are the Forehead and Jaw, for a properly fitted and worn mask. Now your going to actually state, in public, with a straight face, that the energy from a ball hitting a mask is not going to be transfered to the ONLY two contact points, the Forehead and Jaw ?

Where is it going to be transfered to, your cup ?

Here is the crux of the debate;

Old guys = Mask

Young guys = Helmet

The young guys are going to win this one, because the old guys are going to die before the young guys. I am 47, and I have been wearing a mask since I was 44 (still a young guy).

But keep fighting for your right to wear a mask. Just make sure your argument is valid. I would even accept, "I refuse to try it, think about it, or watch someone wearing one." At least it would be sincere.

[Tim C]

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that I was against wearing the HSM.

That's old news.

I am simply saying that mask manufacturers believe that a mask should work much like an F1 race car and disapate the energy of the strike by having the mask spin or fly off your face.

Even the MLB guy (sorry Nick I forget which one) that was injured last year admitted freely that he had been wearing his mask "too tight."

I have passed the emotional side of iffin' a guy wears a HSM or traditional mask . . . I see you haven't.

Regards,

[GrizzlyUmp14]

I have always worn the hockey-style mask. I had a foul ball hit my shoulder pad and bounced toward my head. Luckily, it deflected off part of my helmet and just barely hit my face. If I was wearing a traditional mask, I'm sure it would have been a lot worse. I love the increased protection and I feel that I have excellent vision (which is really important!)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Tim,

I'm afraid your reputation does nothing for you on this one. I have enough Mechanical Engineering experience to confidently say, you are DEAD WRONG.

Think about it; A mask has two pads, where the contact points are the Forehead and Jaw, for a properly fitted and worn mask. Now your going to actually state, in public, with a straight face, that the energy from a ball hitting a mask is not going to be transfered to the ONLY two contact points, the Forehead and Jaw ?

Where is it going to be transfered to, your cup ?

Here is the crux of the debate;

Old guys = Mask

Young guys = Helmet

The young guys are going to win this one, because the old guys are going to die before the young guys. I am 47, and I have been wearing a mask since I was 44 (still a young guy).

But keep fighting for your right to wear a mask. Just make sure your argument is valid. I would even accept, "I refuse to try it, think about it, or watch someone wearing one." At least it would be sincere.

The thing you aren't hearing from Tim is that a mask, WORN PROPERLY, will cause the same amount of pain and discomfort when hit as the HSM. None. A mask is designed to be worn loose and, when hit, it's supposed to spin up and off the face.

If you like the HSM, fine, but don't act like it's more dangerous to choose the mask, cause it isn't.

BTW, I wear a HSM.......cause I think the VISION is better -- for no other reason.