Tough call at 1st...Say Goodbye to another Asst. Coach

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

blueump and Rich F.:



This is why the runner is out. Rich, why is "close enough to the base" the same as being on the base? From what Nick said, the throw arrived before the runner, so it was not obstruction. It is perfectly legal for F3 to block the base from the runner.

Had the runner been an intelligent person, he would have dove back in and wrapped his meathook around the base. By coming in standing up on a close play, he opened himself up to being called out to begin with.

Rich later asked how Nick could be certain the runner didn't have part of his foot on the base. What???? That is exactly where the umpire is looking. I have no trouble seeing the position of runners' feet in relation to the bases. I don't care if I'm in B, C, or D, E, or F for that matter. If F3 has his foot between the runner and the base, and the runner is on the foot and not the base, he is out when tagged with the ball. I don't see what the problem with that is.

You wouldn't.

[SanDiegoSteve]

What's that supposed to mean? You are the one calling a runner safe when he's most certainly out. Expected call, my butt. How about the right call? What, do you think you're some kind of better umpire than I am. Puleeeeeze, you are far from it.

[blueump]

From what I read, the only reason that the runner is not on the bag is beacause F3 pushed, shoved, "blocked", or whatever the runner OFF the bag. If the runner gets there safely and F3 does anything to knock him off the bag, then I've got the runner safe. Baseball was never intended to be a wrestling match.

If however, the base was blocked...legally...and the runner comes off the bag on his own, whether by momentum, adjusting, or simple stupidity...then his butt is out.

[JeremyGrey]

The way I understand it is that there was no pushing or shoving at all. As F3 is receiving the throw at the base he is legally in a position between the runner and the base. As the runner goes to step on the base, he steps on F3's foot and NOT the base. F3 tags the runner while he is in contact with F3's foot and NOT in contact with the base. Out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What's that supposed to mean? You are the one calling a runner safe when he's most certainly out. Expected call, my butt. How about the right call? What, do you think you're some kind of better umpire than I am. Puleeeeeze, you are far from it.

No, but anyone who thinks they can see a foot COMPLETELY on top of another foot from 50 feet away is delusional. We aren't paid to guess out there.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

No, but anyone who thinks they can see a foot COMPLETELY on top of another foot from 50 feet away is delusional. We aren't paid to guess out there.

I think you better be able to see it, or don't work anything other than a 4 man crew, so you can sit in a lawn chair at your base and make your calls.

Rotation ? What rotation ? I need to be 6' from my call, or I can't make it ?

Besides, think about all the great calls coaches make from the opposite dugout, or fans make from the stands.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I think you better be able to see it, or don't work anything other than a 4 man crew, so you can sit in a lawn chair at your base and make your calls.

Rotation ? What rotation ? I need to be 6' from my call, or I can't make it ?

You do the best you can. 2-man is a series of compromises.

If you would bet your life and/or career on the call you made in the OP even with a camera pointed right at the base and instant replay for the world to see, then I'd support your call.

If not, you should've called the runner safe. Benefit of the doubt, ANY doubt, should definitely go to the runner on this play.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You do the best you can. 2-man is a series of compromises.

If you would bet your life and/or career on the call you made in the OP even with a camera pointed right at the base and instant replay for the world to see, then I'd support your call.

If not, you should've called the runner safe. Benefit of the doubt, ANY doubt, should definitely go to the runner on this play.

Fair enough.

Let me add two things;

1) On this play, the runner came in slow enough that I am very confident in what I saw. But I guess that doesn't mean it is what I should have called, because I do believe in calling the expected call, at the right time.

2) Me personally...When a runner comes back to the base standing up, rather than hustling in with a hard dive, if the play is close, I bang them them out. No rule to support this. Just my way of making a decision on a close play.

[3appleshigh]

You continue to give this call to the 1st baseman, you might as well get out the first aid kit now. With metal spikes on I would coach my kids to make sure the 1st baseman PAID for the OUT, you wanna block the bag, fine, but your gonna bleed as I step throught the top of your foot. I'm gonna reach first your foot there or not.

[Kaliix]

Exactly right. These things have a way of taking care of themselves. I had a kid I know complain about this very thing to me (not at a game) and I told him that if the first baseman tries to block the bag with his foot, go hard into the bag feet first. I told him not to try and intentionally hurt the kid (ie spikes up high or wind up into the slide), but to just slide hard into the bag and if you have to go through his foot to get to the bag, so be it.

There is a reason that 1st baseman don't block the bag with their foot or leg. It is bush league and will get you hurt. IMHO

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

You continue to give this call to the 1st baseman, you might as well get out the first aid kit now. With metal spikes on I would coach my kids to make sure the 1st baseman PAID for the OUT, you wanna block the bag, fine, but your gonna bleed as I step throught the top of your foot. I'm gonna reach first your foot there or not.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

You continue to give this call to the 1st baseman, you might as well get out the first aid kit now. With metal spikes on I would coach my kids to make sure the 1st baseman PAID for the OUT, you wanna block the bag, fine, but your gonna bleed as I step throught the top of your foot. I'm gonna reach first your foot there or not.

I wholeheartedly agree. I was not arguing in favor of F3's positioning. I would stomp on his foot just as hard as I could get away with, if I were the runner. But the fact is that the runner should be diving back on such a close play, and could have easily gotten his hand back on the base in time. I tend not to reward bad baserunning as a general rule of thumb.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

If not, you should've called the runner safe. Benefit of the doubt, ANY doubt, should definitely go to the runner on this play.

Yep. Unless the throw beat the runner so badly that Grandma in the cheap seats saw it, the runner is safe every time.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

No, but anyone who thinks they can see a foot COMPLETELY on top of another foot from 50 feet away is delusional. We aren't paid to guess out there.

I didn't read the word "completely" in the original post. He said that the runner was on F3's foot (which was not on the base, but on the 2nd base side of it), and not touching the base. I'm sorry, Rich, but I can see that play from the angle I bust in for from B and get. Clear as glass, I can see when the foot isn't on the base. Let me illustrate the best I can:
BASE