Tough call at 1st...Say Goodbye to another Asst. Coach

[nickrego]

Pick play at 1st, on at throw-down from the catcher.

F3 does a perfect job of blocking the front part of the bag with his foot as the throw is coming in (seeing a lot of more of this, this year).

F3 catches a high throw just before R1 comes back to the base (so he has the ball as he is blocking the base).

R1 comes in standing up, and puts his foot on top of F3's foot.

F3 applies the tag, while R1 is still in contact with his foot, and not the base.

R1's momentum takes him into F3, bumping him into foul territory. This causes F3's foot to slip out from under R1's foot. R1 is now standing on the base.

I call R1 OUT, and say F3 legally blocked him off the bag.

ASSistant coach at 1st goes ballistic. And tells the runner to stay put. I repeat that the runner is out, and start to head back to A. I see the manager coming out to talk, so I stop and wait for him. Blah, Blah, Blah. Then I tell him to get his, still griping, ASSistant coach under control.

I head back over to A, coach keeps nipping at my heals, so I dump him.

Replacement ASSistant coach comes out, and immediately starts talking to me. Asking why I dumped the other coach, what did he say. I told him that unless he wanted to join him, coach your base. He shuts up after saying, "OK, OK. It's cool we're all friends here." (yeah right)

After the game, as I am walking off the field with my partner, the head coach of the team (that lost by 8 runs, and was down 6 -1 at the time of the call) is telling me that my call cost him the game, and that is was a mistake that effected the game.

I just smiled and kept walking. My partner and I had a good laugh about it at the car.

[Rich]

Nick,

I'm not sure why one looks for the poopy side of the stick like this. Call the runner safe and call time so the fielder and runner can untangle. If R1 stepped on F3's foot, surely some part of R1's foot was on or close enough to the base. You're in the B position a good distance away from the base (unless you're working with 3 or more umpires). Make the expected call.

--Rich

[blueump]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I call R1 OUT, and say F3 legally blocked him off the bag.

This isn't football. What the heck is a "legal block off the bag?" I agree with Rich, make the expected call here. No advantage to F3 for pushing, pulling, or "blocking" the runner off the bag! Call time, and leave the runner at 1st.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Pick play at 1st, on at throw-down from the catcher.

F3 does a perfect job of blocking the front part of the bag with his foot as the throw is coming in (seeing a lot of more of this, this year).

F3 catches a high throw just before R1 comes back to the base (so he has the ball as he is blocking the base).

R1 comes in standing up, and puts his foot on top of F3's foot.

F3 applies the tag, while R1 is still in contact with his foot, and not the base.

R1's momentum takes him into F3, bumping him into foul territory. This causes F3's foot to slip out from under R1's foot. R1 is now standing on the base.

I call R1 OUT, and say F3 legally blocked him off the bag.

ASSistant coach at 1st goes ballistic. And tells the runner to stay put. I repeat that the runner is out, and start to head back to A. I see the manager coming out to talk, so I stop and wait for him. Blah, Blah, Blah. Then I tell him to get his, still griping, ASSistant coach under control.

I head back over to A, coach keeps nipping at my heals, so I dump him.

Replacement ASSistant coach comes out, and immediately starts talking to me. Asking why I dumped the other coach, what did he say. I told him that unless he wanted to join him, coach your base. He shuts up after saying, "OK, OK. It's cool we're all friends here." (yeah right)

After the game, as I am walking off the field with my partner, the head coach of the team (that lost by 8 runs, and was down 6 -1 at the time of the call) is telling me that my call cost him the game, and that is was a mistake that effected the game.

I just smiled and kept walking. My partner and I had a good laugh about it at the car.

In a situation like this I would not have called the runner out. Since you did, you should have expected the coach to go 'postal'. Baseball is a game of emotions and sometimes they get out of control. Remember, the coaches and the fans see the plays with their hearts and we see the plays with our eyes.

I had a play at home the other day (HS varsity) where the runner stepped on F2's foot, which was on the plate. The defense appealed saying that the runner didn't touch the plate. I called him safe. I could have called him out but then I would have been tossing some coaches too.

Also, it's always the umpire's fault that they lost the game, especially in a close 8 run game

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Justme

In a situation like this I would not have called the runner out. Since you did, you should have expected the coach to go 'postal'. Baseball is a game of emotions and sometimes they get out of control. Remember, the coaches and the fans see the plays with their hearts and we see the plays with our eyes.

I had a play at home the other day (HS varsity) where the runner stepped on F2's foot, which was on the plate. The defense appealed saying that the runner didn't touch the plate. I called him safe. I could have called him out but then I would have been tossing some coaches too.

Also, it's always the umpire's fault that they lost the game, especially in a close 8 run game

The problem isn't the "tossing some coaches." I'm always for a good ejection story. The problem is -- how can one be 100% sure that the runner's foot DIDN'T touch the base, especially, in Nick's case, when he's in the middle of the diamond? If the runner beat the throw back, call him safe.

[irefky]

My brother had this play this week.

BR hit ball in to deep short, F3 is prepared to take throw and BR steps on F3's foot then the ball gets to F3. My brother calls BR safe. He knows BR did not touch the base but would have if F3 did not have his foot on top of the base.

However, F3 screams at his coach and tells him what happened. The HC appeals to PU, not the Bu and the PU calls BR out. Well, BR's HC gets tossed as he argues the call.

As I told my brother, PU should not have appealed, that was BU to appeal to PU. Anyway, PU should have left things alone.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by irefky

My brother had this play this week.

BR hit ball in to deep short, F3 is prepared to take throw and BR steps on F3's foot then the ball gets to F3. My brother calls BR safe. He knows BR did not touch the base but would have if F3 did not have his foot on top of the base.

However, F3 screams at his coach and tells him what happened. The HC appeals to PU, not the Bu and the PU calls BR out. Well, BR's HC gets tossed as he argues the call.

As I told my brother, PU should not have appealed, that was BU to appeal to PU. Anyway, PU should have left things alone.

Time to ask the visiting coach to have the bus brought around so your brother can throw his partner under it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by blueump

This isn't football. What the heck is a "legal block off the bag?" I agree with Rich, make the expected call here. No advantage to F3 for pushing, pulling, or "blocking" the runner off the bag! Call time, and leave the runner at 1st.

blueump and Rich F.:

Originally Posted by nickrego

F3 applies the tag, while R1 is still in contact with his foot, and not the base.

This is why the runner is out. Rich, why is "close enough to the base" the same as being on the base? From what Nick said, the throw arrived before the runner, so it was not obstruction. It is perfectly legal for F3 to block the base from the runner.

Had the runner been an intelligent person, he would have dove back in and wrapped his meathook around the base. By coming in standing up on a close play, he opened himself up to being called out to begin with.

Rich later asked how Nick could be certain the runner didn't have part of his foot on the base. What???? That is exactly where the umpire is looking. I have no trouble seeing the position of runners' feet in relation to the bases. I don't care if I'm in B, C, or D, E, or F for that matter. If F3 has his foot between the runner and the base, and the runner is on the foot and not the base, he is out when tagged with the ball. I don't see what the problem with that is.

[MrB]

Nick, what level were you working and what is that level's rule on obstruction? In NCAA, you could award a base, but I would just call him safe.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

blueump and Rich F.:



This is why the runner is out. Rich, why is "close enough to the base" the same as being on the base? From what Nick said, the throw arrived before the runner, so it was not obstruction. It is perfectly legal for F3 to block the base from the runner.

Had the runner been an intelligent person, he would have dove back in and wrapped his meathook around the base. By coming in standing up on a close play, he opened himself up to being called out to begin with.

Rich later asked how Nick could be certain the runner didn't have part of his foot on the base. What???? That is exactly where the umpire is looking. I have no trouble seeing the position of runners' feet in relation to the bases. I don't care if I'm in B, C, or D, E, or F for that matter. If F3 has his foot between the runner and the base, and the runner is on the foot and not the base, he is out when tagged with the ball. I don't see what the problem with that is.

You wouldn't.

[SanDiegoSteve]

What's that supposed to mean? You are the one calling a runner safe when he's most certainly out. Expected call, my butt. How about the right call? What, do you think you're some kind of better umpire than I am. Puleeeeeze, you are far from it.

[blueump]

From what I read, the only reason that the runner is not on the bag is beacause F3 pushed, shoved, "blocked", or whatever the runner OFF the bag. If the runner gets there safely and F3 does anything to knock him off the bag, then I've got the runner safe. Baseball was never intended to be a wrestling match.

If however, the base was blocked...legally...and the runner comes off the bag on his own, whether by momentum, adjusting, or simple stupidity...then his butt is out.

[JeremyGrey]

The way I understand it is that there was no pushing or shoving at all. As F3 is receiving the throw at the base he is legally in a position between the runner and the base. As the runner goes to step on the base, he steps on F3's foot and NOT the base. F3 tags the runner while he is in contact with F3's foot and NOT in contact with the base. Out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What's that supposed to mean? You are the one calling a runner safe when he's most certainly out. Expected call, my butt. How about the right call? What, do you think you're some kind of better umpire than I am. Puleeeeeze, you are far from it.

No, but anyone who thinks they can see a foot COMPLETELY on top of another foot from 50 feet away is delusional. We aren't paid to guess out there.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by blueump

This isn't football. What the heck is a "legal block off the bag?" I agree with Rich, make the expected call here. No advantage to F3 for pushing, pulling, or "blocking" the runner off the bag! Call time, and leave the runner at 1st.

Most of the time, you see it at home plate, where the catcher will stretch their left leg back in front of the plate, as they are receiving the ball, to block the runner off while they apply the tag.

This year, I have been seeing it more and more at other bases. Pretty risky play for an unprotected fielder.

In this case, F3 did not push or pull the runner. The runner, because he came in standing instead of diving, bumped F3 off of the bag.

Ignoring the fact that the runner never touched the base, prior to being tagged, and calling him safe, definately would have been the expected call, and probably would have avoided the mess. Unless the defensive coach, standing outside the 1st base dugout, would have seen what I saw. Then I may have been dumping him instead. But most likely, making the expected call would have slipped through.

Just a funny note: As the ejected coach was walking back to the dugout, droping F-bombs at the top of his lungs, a player shouted from the defensive dugout: "Hey coach, why don't you teach your runners to dive back, then he would have been safe !" That got a rather nasty glare from the coach.