Dilemma - Dropped ball during rundown

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Two of my recent games...

R1 in rundown bewteen 1st and 2nd. Defensive player catches ball and forces the runner toward 2nd (okay so there's the first mistake). The defensive player carries the ball in his ungloved hand for at least 30 feet and then tags the runner in the back. I call an immediate out two steps before the runner reaches 2nd and make the appropriate signal. As the defensive player drops his hand with the ball, he hits something (his own leg?) and the ball drops to the ground. I let the out call stand and said that the dropped ball was a separate act from the tag. No questions from players or coaches but I hear a fan saying "But he dropped the ball."

R3 in run down between 3rd and home. Same defensive mistake - forcing the runner towards home. Again, the defensive player carries the ball 20 feet and tags the runner in the back two to three steps before homeplate. Again, I call an immediate out and begin the signal ... as the ball drops to the ground after touching the runner's back. I change my call and sell the safe call yelling "You dropped the ball. You dropped the ball!!!" Again, no questions from players or coaches and nothing but groans from the fans.

Is there a better mechanic for out and safe calls during a rundown? Should I be waiting longer - to wait would have meant that the runner would have reached their objective (2nd, or home in the last scenario) before I made my call. I really think the immediate call is needed during a rundown but I may be mistaken.

To make the immediate call before they reach the base surely helps sell the call. And to wait until after the runner has reached their objective will surely create some nay sayers that I got the call wrong (when they don't drop the ball).

Maybe it's just a damned if you do and damned if you don't? Comments? Suggestions? Proper mechanic?

[briancurtin]

all i really see is to make the call, and sell it, the instant you have figured out what your call will be. i wouldnt really say to wait longer, but just to pay very close attention to the situation and as soon as you can make the right call, make it.

[BigUmp56]

Tony:

Whether the ball is in the glove or the hand the fielder must show secure possesion through the tag. Any subsequent bobble or drop as a result of the tag dictates a safe call. You need to slow down and see the play all the way through. The J/R covers this pretty well.

"Catch" and "Tag" are similar concepts. A tag occurs when the ball is live and a fielder has the ball in his hand or glove (or both) and:

a) a base is touched by his person or
b) a runner is touched by any part of the glove/ball or hand/ball combination.

Such fielder must show complete control of the ball during and after the touch, and show this control by voluntarily releasing the ball. If, during or after the touch and before voluntary release has been shown, the ball is bobbled or dropped, it is not a tag.


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

I really think the immediate call is needed during a rundown but I may be mistaken.

Call the out when there's an out. The out "happens" (I don't mean that literally) sometime after the tag.

[David B]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Two of my recent games...

R1 in rundown bewteen 1st and 2nd. Defensive player catches ball and forces the runner toward 2nd (okay so there's the first mistake). The defensive player carries the ball in his ungloved hand for at least 30 feet and then tags the runner in the back. I call an immediate out two steps before the runner reaches 2nd and make the appropriate signal. As the defensive player drops his hand with the ball, he hits something (his own leg?) and the ball drops to the ground. I let the out call stand and said that the dropped ball was a separate act from the tag. No questions from players or coaches but I hear a fan saying "But he dropped the ball."

R3 in run down between 3rd and home. Same defensive mistake - forcing the runner towards home. Again, the defensive player carries the ball 20 feet and tags the runner in the back two to three steps before homeplate. Again, I call an immediate out and begin the signal ... as the ball drops to the ground after touching the runner's back. I change my call and sell the safe call yelling "You dropped the ball. You dropped the ball!!!" Again, no questions from players or coaches and nothing but groans from the fans.

Is there a better mechanic for out and safe calls during a rundown? Should I be waiting longer - to wait would have meant that the runner would have reached their objective (2nd, or home in the last scenario) before I made my call. I really think the immediate call is needed during a rundown but I may be mistaken.

To make the immediate call before they reach the base surely helps sell the call. And to wait until after the runner has reached their objective will surely create some nay sayers that I got the call wrong (when they don't drop the ball).

Maybe it's just a damned if you do and damned if you don't? Comments? Suggestions? Proper mechanic?

You make a good point, but I've found that being a little slow but being sure helps in the long run.

YOu made the right calls but the perception is what you are looking at. How does it look to the players, coaches, fans etc.,

I would suggest that if a player is running wait until he stops (same as on a catch type of play) and then make the appropriate call.

Thansk
David

[mcrowder]

If it helps with timing, point at the tag when you see it, and then make the call. This gives you the extra half-second you might need to see the subsequent drop, and if it is a drop, you're already pointing at it as if you saw it. Definitely slow down though by whatever means works for you. There is no risk in making this call just a bit late as opposed to making it just a bit early.

[C'monBlue]

Take as long as you need to make ONE call. Taking an extra half second will be looked on more favorably than making a call too prematurely and then having to change.

[Sal Giaco]

I got a great idea for timing...... how about PROPER USE OF EYES. It's amazing how some people describe it - "just wait a little longer, point at the play first, etc"

Timing is not just for behind the plate - it's also used on the bases for this exact reason. Once you determine a tag or if the ball beat the runner/runner beat the ball, then you shift your eyes/focus to the glove to determine firm and secure possession and voluntary release. If you use your eyes properly and look at BOTH aspects of the play, then you will likely make the correct call at the right time.

[Okblu]

This is what I do. I point, yell TAG to let everyone know that I saw the tag, and then continue to watch the play finish. No out or safe call is made until I'm sure that the play has ended. I've had no problem with players, coaches, or fans when I do this.