Dropped fly ball

[deernut_00]

Fly ball to left field, runner on 1st. Left fielder caught ball and swung mitt toward ground, losing the ball on the ground. Umpire called "out", 1st base coach did not hear that call (only saw the ball hit the ground), sent runner to second, as hitter comes to first. Two outs called when ball was relayed to first.

What is the "possession" time necessary to be called a fly ball out?

[Edited by deernut_00 on Apr 25th, 2004 at 07:22 PM]

[TexBlue]

You have to show control of the ball. If she caught it and took 3 or 4 steps, then fell and dropped it this is control. If she is off balance, the glove hits the ground and she loses it, I have to think she did not exhibit control at all. Heck, her body wasn't under control.

Of course, the coach should be looking at or listening to the umpire to see what the call is. I'm not sure he can complain on the 2 outs. He might have questioned the fly ball out and asked for an appeal to his partner, if he was even looking at it, which he shouldn't have been. The leaving the base early out is a given. UNLESS the runner left after the fielder 1st touched the ball. I wasn't clear on the timing of the leaving the base.

[Edited by TexBlue on Apr 25th, 2004 at 06:29 PM]

[deernut_00]

Glove of the fielder did not touch the ground. It came from above the head to shoulder height in one step when the player was regaining her balance, when the ball fell to the ground (appeared she was reaching for it but didn't touch it with her throwing hand). She recovered the ball from the ground and threw it toward first base.

The runner stayed on first until the ball hit the ground, and then was told by the coach to run to second.

Is appearance of a catch relative to the time the ball is in the glove how that 'call' is made? I would think that a player who doesn't contact the ground by falling, but drops the ball to the ground when attempting to get it in her throwing hand, would be called for 'no possession', or a dropped ball. I see it as a tough one to call. But the need to "think and call" fast is important, with the runner on the base.

As well, the first base coach has to hear the call from the ump in the second base area over the crowd.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by deernut_00
Glove of the fielder did not touch the ground. It came from above the head to shoulder height in one step when the player was regaining her balance, when the ball fell to the ground (appeared she was reaching for it but didn't touch it with her throwing hand). She recovered the ball from the ground and threw it toward first base.

The runner stayed on first until the ball hit the ground, and then was told by the coach to run to second.

This sounds like a classic case of HTBT (Had To Be There) on the catch. It may or may not be a catch, depending on what the PU saw, or thought he saw.

As far as the runner goes, once the fly ball is touched by a defender, they can release from the base and advance at their own risk. It does not have to be caught for the runner to be allowed to legally leave the base.

[whiskers_ump]

Definiately sounds as though it was HBTB...However, you
are saying runner left when ball hit the ground. Should
not have been called out unless there was more to the
play. As Rick stated, as soon as the ball hit the glove
of defender, runner was free to travel.

Welcome to the board deernut_00

[MichaelVA2000]

No voluntary release, no catch.

Michael

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by MichaelVA2000
No voluntary release, no catch.

Michael

Speaking ASA.

This is not necessarily true. The player must still demonstrate control of the ball at some point. To voluntarily release the ball, one must have the ball first. A voluntary release on a ball not held in the player's hand(s) to demonstrate control is not a legal catch.