Eval. HS Game Situ - HELP!!!

[PAT THE REF]

Hey everyone,

I was asked by my asc. to look into two brand new umpires on their 1st H.S. Game... Today Frosh Boys. Light Rain - 65 Deg. - Overcast/gloomy skies...

Now we all remember our 1st HS game... I just want to know what you guys think I should write in my final report.

Sit 1) 1 out, Runners on 1st & 2nd... HIGH HIGH ball hit straight up. Lands straight down and deemed fair, no IFF call.. runners advance... Catcher tries to throw the runner out at first, called safe by BU. Then coach on 3rd questions it... PU states it is an applied rule... Runners are now on 2nd & 3rd, batters out. Other coach states that it isnt fair that the runners can advance and the runner on 2nd should be called out since he "left early". Umps state that since time was called, play was dead.
***What would you have done?***

Sit 2) Pitcher balks (clearly), Runner on 2nd gets caught in a rundown. BU in position B runs over and stands near 3rd, PU stays home... Caught and tagged out. Coach on 3rd states that the pitcher balked and the runner should get 3rd... Umps confirred and ruled that runner gets 3rd, other coach goes balistic... PU warns that coach.

Sit 3) Rundown between 3rd and Home, 1 runner is now moving from 2nd to 3rd and standing on 3rd. Runner from 3rd moving home and gets tangled with the catcher who was "diving" for the ball across the base path (foul line) while the runner was moving home... Runner gets tagged... OUT, then the same coach questions it and ruling gets overturned... Other coach does not even leave his dugout...

Coach on third wins 8-2 in 7 innings....

What do you think??? Thanks

[Justme]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Hey everyone,

I was asked by my asc. to look into two brand new umpires on their 1st H.S. Game... Today Frosh Boys. Light Rain - 65 Deg. - Overcast/gloomy skies...

Now we all remember our 1st HS game... I just want to know what you guys think I should write in my final report.

Sit 1) 1 out, Runners on 1st & 2nd... HIGH HIGH ball hit straight up. Lands straight down and deemed fair, no IFF call.. runners advance... Catcher tries to throw the runner out at first, called safe by BU. Then coach on 3rd questions it... PU states it is an applied rule... Runners are now on 2nd & 3rd, batters out. Other coach states that it isnt fair that the runners can advance and the runner on 2nd should be called out since he "left early". Umps state that since time was called, play was dead.
***What would you have done?***

Sit 2) Pitcher balks (clearly), Runner on 2nd gets caught in a rundown. BU in position B runs over and stands near 3rd, PU stays home... Caught and tagged out. Coach on 3rd states that the pitcher balked and the runner should get 3rd... Umps confirred and ruled that runner gets 3rd, other coach goes balistic... PU warns that coach.

Sit 3) Rundown between 3rd and Home, 1 runner is now moving from 2nd to 3rd and standing on 3rd. Runner from 3rd moving home and gets tangled with the catcher who was "diving" for the ball across the base path (foul line) while the runner was moving home... Runner gets tagged... OUT, then the same coach questions it and ruling gets overturned... Other coach does not even leave his dugout...

Coach on third wins 8-2 in 7 innings....

What do you think??? Thanks

Why would your association put two new umpires together? Sounds like you got your money's worth.

You should be writing your evaluation rather than asking us to do your job.

I will offer an evaluation of your assignor if you'd like

[PAT THE REF]

Just wanted to know what do u personally think of these situations...

[Justme]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Just wanted to know what do u personally think of these situations...

Let's see, here are my evaluations:

Sit 1) 1 out, Runners on 1st & 2nd... HIGH HIGH ball hit straight up. Lands straight down and deemed fair, no IFF call.. runners advance... Catcher tries to throw the runner out at first, called safe by BU. Then coach on 3rd questions it... PU states it is an applied rule... Runners are now on 2nd & 3rd, batters out. Other coach states that it isnt fair that the runners can advance and the runner on 2nd should be called out since he "left early". Umps state that since time was called, play was dead.
***What would you have done?***

**** Poor umpire training.... Local association failed to provide adequate training for the umpires prior to assigning them games. ****

Sit 2) Pitcher balks (clearly), Runner on 2nd gets caught in a rundown. BU in position B runs over and stands near 3rd, PU stays home... Caught and tagged out. Coach on 3rd states that the pitcher balked and the runner should get 3rd... Umps confirred and ruled that runner gets 3rd, other coach goes balistic... PU warns that coach.

**** Poor umpire training.... Local association failed to provide adequate training for the umpires prior to assigning them games. ****

Sit 3) Rundown between 3rd and Home, 1 runner is now moving from 2nd to 3rd and standing on 3rd. Runner from 3rd moving home and gets tangled with the catcher who was "diving" for the ball across the base path (foul line) while the runner was moving home... Runner gets tagged... OUT, then the same coach questions it and ruling gets overturned... Other coach does not even leave his dugout...

**** Poor umpire training.... Local association failed to provide adequate training for the umpires prior to assigning them games. ****

Hope this helps

[PAT THE REF]

Well I could of told everyone that... But, do you think all of these are correctable errors? I know IFF is, but obstructon? balks? they are all "applied rules" correct? Thanks

[phillips.alex]

as was mentioned earlier, two brand new umps shouldn't be working together, especially at the freshman level since there will be lots of errors, obstructions, and balks. As far as the review goes, think about the basics. Do these two new umps have the basic knowledge of baseball? Anyone can be trained in mechanics and memorize the book with a bit of effort. If they are willing to put in the effort and the association is willing to train them, i would say that instead of evaluating their first game, you should be in the game with one of them, teaching him.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Just wanted to know what do u personally think of these situations...

I think they got the first two plays right (albeit late). They may have had the third play correct, too, depending on what "they" saw.

Could it have been better? Sure.

If they are good umpires, they will learn from the mistakes.

[PAT THE REF]

Originally Posted by phillips.alex

as was mentioned earlier, two brand new umps shouldn't be working together, especially at the freshman level since there will be lots of errors, obstructions, and balks. As far as the review goes, think about the basics. Do these two new umps have the basic knowledge of baseball? Anyone can be trained in mechanics and memorize the book with a bit of effort. If they are willing to put in the effort and the association is willing to train them, i would say that instead of evaluating their first game, you should be in the game with one of them, teaching him.

I Agree totally... This issue will be adressed, thanks everyone for their comments

[David B]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Hey everyone,

I was asked by my asc. to look into two brand new umpires on their 1st H.S. Game... Today Frosh Boys. Light Rain - 65 Deg. - Overcast/gloomy skies...

Now we all remember our 1st HS game... I just want to know what you guys think I should write in my final report.

Sit 1) 1 out, Runners on 1st & 2nd... HIGH HIGH ball hit straight up. Lands straight down and deemed fair, no IFF call.. runners advance... Catcher tries to throw the runner out at first, called safe by BU. Then coach on 3rd questions it... PU states it is an applied rule... Runners are now on 2nd & 3rd, batters out. Other coach states that it isnt fair that the runners can advance and the runner on 2nd should be called out since he "left early". Umps state that since time was called, play was dead.
***What would you have done?***

Sit 2) Pitcher balks (clearly), Runner on 2nd gets caught in a rundown. BU in position B runs over and stands near 3rd, PU stays home... Caught and tagged out. Coach on 3rd states that the pitcher balked and the runner should get 3rd... Umps confirred and ruled that runner gets 3rd, other coach goes balistic... PU warns that coach.

Sit 3) Rundown between 3rd and Home, 1 runner is now moving from 2nd to 3rd and standing on 3rd. Runner from 3rd moving home and gets tangled with the catcher who was "diving" for the ball across the base path (foul line) while the runner was moving home... Runner gets tagged... OUT, then the same coach questions it and ruling gets overturned... Other coach does not even leave his dugout...

Coach on third wins 8-2 in 7 innings....

What do you think??? Thanks

Maybe were a little late with the calls, but they did get them right it sounds like at least.

For new umpires, that is about normal. Its all about training and sounds like they were getting some good experience; however, I agree with other comments, the best experience is with a veteran partner.

By chance did you have a chance to meet with them following the game to offer suggestions?

That would be the only way they are going to learn - simply writing an evaluation is not going to do a bit of good.

Thanks
David

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Hey everyone,

What do you think??? Thanks

Hopefully, someone was there to watch them and prepare an evaluation.

Here's what we do not know.

Did these new guys simply have the "jitters" in their first game. In other words perhaps they knew the rule but simply "froze". It happened to me when I first started.

It's much easier to get rid of the "jitters" "butterflys", when you play the game then when you umpire.

We have had recent threads on the state of the Minor League umpires Union. Suppose you did take an AAA Game with no other Pro or even High Level (D1)college experience. Chances are one would be nervous (no matter how many games they called) in dealing with professional baseball and if something routine did happen it's not impossible that a very good umpire would "freeze"
in doing his first Pro Game.

In Summary: I would start with the evaluation from a knowledgeable official, talk to the umpires and decide whether or not it was first game "jitters" or they need further training before they go into their next game.

Pete Booth