plate ump covering 3rd

[Justme]

Originally Posted by Clint Lawson

David,

I know a lot of people are going to say this is wrong but, like to take the play at 3rd as the plate umpire in foul territory like in three man. That way you can read the ball, runnner and field and umpire the play.

Our HS association teaches us this coverage when working in 3-man system (runner on first): The plate umpire moves up the 3B line in foul territory and if the runner continues (if a play develops at 3B) he should cut inside to watch the play. The 1B umpire covers home and 3B umpire remains at 2B.

With a runner at 2nd base the plate umpire stays home

Is this what you other FED umpires do (3-man mechanics only)?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PWL

Shouldn't that read base umpire take the play at home on overthrow at 3B. If your running back to cover home, you might be in the path of a thrown ball.

How would the plate umpire be in the line of fire be any different than the BU? This is not just a California mechanic. This is a NF mechanic as I read it.

Peace

[Justme]

Originally Posted by PWL

Shouldn't that read base umpire take the play at home on overthrow at 3B. If your running back to cover home, you might be in the path of a thrown ball.

I like your idea but we are told that the PU hauls a$$ (staying inside) and get as far (close to home) as possible remembering (of course) angle over distance.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PWL

My 2005/2006 Umpire Mechanics manual says for 2 man mechanics with runner on 2B only: For U2 (pg 47 ) 5. Move to line up the tag of R1 advancing to third after a caught ball; U1 has play at third and you will have any subsequent play at the plate. If U1 has gone down the right-field line to rule catch/no catch or fair/foul, you must take R1 into third base.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO.

How nice. What manual is this?

Normal umpiring mechanics have the BU taking the catch (in the cone), tag, and play at third.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by PWL

That would be FED. Try to keep up.

My FED manual doesn't agree with yours either. We work the cone.

With a runner on 2B the BU is in the C position.

The PU has the fly ball down either base line.

The BU has the ball from the left fielder to the right fielder.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PWL

That would be FED. Try to keep up.

I throw that piece of junk in the trash second it arrives. My partners work CCA or PRO mechanics. Why would a plate umpire come up to help with a single runner?

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by ggk

R1, base hit to the outfield, i believe the plate ump should cover R1 into 3rd while letting the base ump know same. does the same coverage apply on an infield ball where the runner may have been stealing and is trying to go 1st to third on an infield out or infield error? how about R2 only on an infield out - he waits until the ball is thrown to F3 and then breaks for 3rd. i think PBUC states that base ump has both infield calls, but why wouldn't the plate ump help out in those other situations?? thanks.

Tee gave you an excellent response. Ultimately it boils down to what your organization subscribes to and probably more important who you are working with.

I can tell you from my experiences that my mechanics in HS change daily depending upon whom I'm working with. I worked with an "old" Vet who had the dish and told me under no uncertain terms. "Son I have Home Plate - Get it" meaning bases one through 3 were mine.

A good friend of mine joined the ECAC (Eastern Collegiate Athletic Conference) and as TEE mentioned College wants the BU to take both calls, however, at the collegiate level you have a group of umpires who for the most part are on the same page and will hustle into position. HS is different depending upon your partner.

In Summary: Do what your association wants you to and know who your partner is.

Pete Booth

[David B]

Originally Posted by PWL

Rich,

I work with so many different people, they all seem to do something a little different. I could ask three different umpires the same question and get three different answers.

I agree, that manual isn't really worth much. Maybe to prop up an uneven table leg instead of using sugar packets.

We don't discuss mechanics at meetings, if ever. I am scheduled to work with our association president Friday. I'll get his feedback and go from there. I know they want us to take the second play in the infield at 3B. I'm just not sure about PU covering home on an overthrow at 3B. I know of the mechanic JustMe is talking about. I didn't know if it is was only CCA or pro.

They still want PU to take runner into 3B on triple with no one on. Why, I couldn't tell you. I wish they would have some sort of hand out explaining exactly what mechanics the association uses. We have too many people winging it.

I've been in groups that have done it both ways. I personally like for PU to take the runner to third. It gives two men for a possible run down etc.,

And its easy for BU to go home on an overthrow.

But it also works well with BU taking the runner to 3rd.

Not a big deal unless you have a partner who is out of shape. (g)

Thanks
David

[smac1231]

Hello all,

New to the site, but not to the game. First post ...

I work HS and am a rookie JUCO umpire. Great discussion about UIC covering 3B on this thread.

My 2-cents-worth on the subject ...

If we get into a habit of having a good pregame with our partner(s), this can easily be discussed and agreed upon before we step foot on the field: "Okay, with a runner on first, I'll get up the line and take him at third if the hit leaves the infield ... otherwise, you've got both plays." This leaves UIC in position to help with a pulled foot, swipe tag, overthrow, etc ...

Understood, different associations may have a set way to handle this situation, but I think a good pregame can cover a lot of the gray areas ... and this is one of them that needs to be covered with partner(s).

I agree that 2-man (and even 3-man in some rotations) puts us in a compromising position, but with some hustle and knowledge of shortcuts, we can make the call at 1B and then take a few steps to get into position to make an educated guess on the play at 3B.

Mac

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by David B

And its easy for BU to go home on an overthrow.

David: I was taught that PU has the plate after an overthrow at 3B. PU returns to the plate in fair territory (ball is in foul territory) and makes the call at HP. This mechanic leaves BU where he is in case of a play at 2B.

I believe this is the standard PBUC mechanic.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How would the plate umpire be in the line of fire be any different than the BU? This is not just a California mechanic. This is a NF mechanic as I read it.

Peace

For the record, it is not a "California" mechanic. It is the mechanic of one association, named "California Baseball Umpires Association."

There are hundreds of associations in California. The HS association in San Diego, for example, uses PBUC (pro school) mechanics, with the exception of the addition of the NF Delayed Dead Ball mechanic.

[Justme]

This is what was taught at the last umpire clinic I attended in SoCal. I was told that this is the mechanic for FED, NCAA & PBUC (wording directly from the PBUC Manual for the Two-Umpire System), this is the mechanic I use.

Fly Balls and Line Drives to the Outfield – Responsibilities

With a runner on 1st base only, fly balls (or line drives) from F7 straight in all the way to F9 straight in belong to the BU. Fly balls (or line drives) where F7 moves any distance toward his right belong to the PU. Likewise, fly balls (or line drives) where F9 moves any distance towards his left belong to the PU.

Section 3.4 Base Hits to the Outfield; First-to-Third Responsibilities

With a runner on 1st base only, on a clean hit to the outfield the BU will step up, turn with the ball, and back up only two or three steps towards the mound to open up to the playing field. From this area he is in good position for observing his responsibilities and moving into the proper position as the plays develop. When the BU has multiple runner responsibilities, if no play develops after the base hit, the BU should maintain his basic position in this working area and not be drawn unnecessarily towards a base without a potential play developing there.

The BU has the responsibility of the touch at 2nd base by the runner from 1st as well as the touch at 1st base by the batter-runner. The PU will come out from behind home plate in the direction of 3rd base, keeping approximately three to six feet into foul territory as he moves down the 3rd base line. It is suggested that as the PU leaves the cutout area at home plate, if he observes that a possibility exists of a play at 3rd on the runner originally on 1st, that the PU make an initial communication to his partner, “I’ve got 3rd if he comes,” alerting his partner to the possibility of a 1st-to-3rd play.

When the PU sees that there is a good possibility for a play at 3rd, as previously mentioned he will communicate to the BU, “I’ve got 3rd, I’ve got 3rd,” as he moves into the cutout at 3rd. At that point he should immediately get into position for the play at 3rd, obtaining proper distance and angle for the play. He should be completely set at the cutout and waiting for the play (ball and runner), NOT timing his arrival so that he is getting set as the play is about to occur.