If a coach said.... - Page 3

D-Man · #31 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 25, 2006, 06:58pm

I am not that good.

Sometimes nothing gets to me.

Sometimes any badly timed peep can set me off.

Hi, I'm D-Man and I am a schitzophrenic umpire.

If I spelled that correctly, I am lucky.

I would not run the coach for the given remark UNLESS he let me know about number one first AND it would have had to have been loud enough for both benches to hear AND I would have had to have warned him first.

Then again maybe not.

d-Man

tiger49 · #32 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 25, 2006, 07:19pm

In the past I have done two things with Managers who count. Once I pulled out the line up card, looked it over and said "Well Skip it looks like you at least did one thing right this time!" at which one of his bench players who was keeping score (men's game) responded "Hell you can read that thing at least you're not blind"

The second time I got it from both the Skip and F6 (who committed three errors up to that point of the game) and said "Well Skip I am trying to keep up with your shortstop". Skip gave a good chuckle and F6 was slient the rest of the game.

briancurtin · #33 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 25, 2006, 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tiger49
In the past I have done two things with Managers who count. Once I pulled out the line up card, looked it over and said "Well Skip it looks like you at least did one thing right this time!" at which one of his bench players who was keeping score (men's game) responded "Hell you can read that thing at least you're not blind"

The second time I got it from both the Skip and F6 (who committed three errors up to that point of the game) and said "Well Skip I am trying to keep up with your shortstop". Skip gave a good chuckle and F6 was slient the rest of the game.

it seems a bit inappropriate to bring a players performance into chatter with coaches
maybe its just me...

Rich · #34 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 25, 2006, 08:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mbyron
I like this thread.

The consensus seems to be: put up a measured or proportional response when the coach begins challenging you.

One difference between Jim's response and some others is that he is "deflecting" rather than "escalating." As Blaine notes, that does indicate to the coach that Jim heard him, but it disarms the comment rather than firing back.

Pro instructors have told me that game management can't really be taught. Fortunately, it's only a tiny percentage of what we do. Some guys know how to cope with situations, and some otherwise superlative umpires get blown up. It's the skill that allows you to advance to the highest levels of pro umpiring, and the rarity of situations is one reason that the apprenticeship is so long.

My own view is that good management requires both a thick skin and good ears; both wisdom and courage; both patience and aggressiveness; and both backbone and balls. To some it comes naturally, others take years to develop it, and some never get it.

And they're all here on the forum!

A measured, calculated response is not "blowing up."

tiger49 · #35 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 25, 2006, 10:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by briancurtin

Quote:

Originally posted by tiger49
In the past I have done two things with Managers who count. Once I pulled out the line up card, looked it over and said "Well Skip it looks like you at least did one thing right this time!" at which one of his bench players who was keeping score (men's game) responded "Hell you can read that thing at least you're not blind"

The second time I got it from both the Skip and F6 (who committed three errors up to that point of the game) and said "Well Skip I am trying to keep up with your shortstop". Skip gave a good chuckle and F6 was slient the rest of the game.

it seems a bit inappropriate to bring a players performance into chatter with coaches
maybe its just me...

Most of the time I would agree, but with the teams I see I tend to know most of the players pretty well, and know which ones I can say that to.

JJ · #36 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:22am

One of my rules of thumb in baseball - and life - is, "Consider the source". Is the coach who said, "That's two you've missed today" someone I know and respect? Is he a grizzled vet or a young buck? Did he put on a "show" in his delivery of the line? Is there any indication why he was trying to show me up? Was it a onetime comment out of the blue (no pun intended) or was it one in a string of other "editorial" comments on the quality of my umpiring? Once I measure all of this information, I can measure my response.
Have I ejected a coach for this comment? Yes. Regularly? No. Have I ignored this comment? Yes. Regularly? No. I'm an umpire. Type A personality. I don't like to be attacked - especially by a coach who has not been trained in nor worked at the levels of umpiring through which I've moved.

JJ

TxUmp · #37 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 27, 2006, 11:19am

Anoher comment that is sure to set me off - "Call it both ways, Blue!"
When I hear that from anyone participating in the game, I issue a warning, saying "Coach, that comment means that you think I am giving the other team something I am not giving you. You are questioning my integrity. I may miss a call, but you will NOT question my integrity as an umpire!"
I have never had to eject a coach for repeating the comment. And most coaches in my area remember not to use that phrase in future games.

ozzy6900 · #38 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TxUmp
Anoher comment that is sure to set me off - "Call it both ways, Blue!"
When I hear that from anyone participating in the game, I issue a warning, saying "Coach, that comment means that you think I am giving the other team something I am not giving you. You are questioning my integrity. I may miss a call, but you will NOT question my integrity as an umpire!"
I have never had to eject a coach for repeating the comment. And most coaches in my area remember not to use that phrase in future games.

The "Call it both ways" comment is an immediate ticket to the showers in my games! I give no warning for calling me a cheater and I have ejected several coaches over the years. Come to think of it, they were all in AAU games!

Never had those comments in HS games or any of my adult games. Must be an AAU thing.

mcrowder · #39 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 27, 2006, 02:36pm

I too have a quicker trigger on "Call it both ways". The only time I remember it not being an ejection was the top of the first inning, first batter. Instead of laughing at him, like I wanted to, I instead said something like "Can we at least wait until I blow one in the bottom of the inning before we make that kind of comment?"

SanDiegoSteve · #40 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 28, 2006, 01:22am

Early in my umpiring days I would have let the "That's two you've blown" comment get to me, but after a while I came up with a way to deflect it and laugh it off. I say "no, coach I think it's three! I guess you missed one."

On the other hand, if they start in my direction, call attention to themselves and hold up the two fingers as they holler it with their veins popping out of their neck, hell yeah I'll run them then.

The "call it both ways" crack gets me. I don't run them automatically if it is the first time they say it, but I ask them if they are accusing me of cheating. That always seems to shut them up quick.

WhatWuzThatBlue · #41 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 28, 2006, 04:09am

"Call it both ways."

Why does that bother you more than any other comment?
The coach is not questioning your integrity any more than he questions your judgement on a banger at second.

Getting upset at CIBW is silly. I do call it both ways - Fair/Foul, Strike/Ball, and Safe/Out. It just so happens that his team is not throwing strikes, getting outs or hitting fair balls. "

I'm not supposed to call it both ways coach. I'm paid to call them fairly." Look away and leave them scratching something.

TxUmp · #42 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 28, 2006, 06:58am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
"Call it both ways."

"I'm not supposed to call it both ways coach. I'm paid to call them fairly." Look away and leave them scratching something. [/QUOTE

I like it!!!

SanDiegoSteve · #43 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 28, 2006, 08:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
"Call it both ways."

Why does that bother you more than any other comment?
The coach is not questioning your integrity any more than he questions your judgement on a banger at second.

Getting upset at CIBW is silly. I do call it both ways - Fair/Foul, Strike/Ball, and Safe/Out. It just so happens that his team is not throwing strikes, getting outs or hitting fair balls. "

I'm not supposed to call it both ways coach. I'm paid to call them fairly." Look away and leave them scratching something.

Hate to disagree, but I know I'm not alone on this, so I will.

Saying to the umpire to call it both ways implies that you are calling it differently for one team than the other.

It further implies that that you are therefore cheating for that other team, which you are supposedly favoring with your calls.

I could care less if they like my banger at second. I know whether or not it was the right call. They can certainly question my safe/out call on a play. That is not the same as "call it both ways," which suggests dishonesty on the part of the umpire.

DG · #44 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 28, 2006, 08:39pm

"Call it both ways" is a popular one for fans, who I ignore. Coaches don't use too often, but if they do I simply give them "the look" and ignore them also. If it happens too often I have baited a coach or two by asking if they are complaining about balls and strikes. The answer either keeps them in the game, or not.

phillips.alex · #45 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 29, 2006, 04:59am

i was just joking earlier about coaches job being to keep us on our toes....however, i like the use of a disarming reply. It keeps the focus on the game and the coach off the heels... I disagree that game management is just a small part of our job, however. If you can give a good enough pre-game, you can usually make your job a hell of a lot easier. By the way, i could not disagree more with people who say to toss the coach for saying things like "that's two you missed today, blue" The coach is not arguing balls and strikes here, he is just pushing the line to see what kind of umpire you are... Saying something witty back is a joke (similar to what i said in my other post, and how it was just a joke) Umpires are to act at all times in a professional manner. One of the men who taught me how to officiate used to put it like this: If a coach or player ever calls you a worthless piece of trash, the correct response is this: Yes, sir. (then eject)