Handling Asst. Coaches

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Okay...okay...put down the big sticks, guys.

I've long gone after those that speak in absolutes. I recall bob jenkins reminding someone to "never say never or always" when speaking about rules. A few guys jumped in and said that a male umpire should always wear a cup when working the plate and we all broke up.

I read TAC's post and it looks like he was saying what most crusty old vets think but few of us actually tell newbies. Pete in AZ likewise made some good points. There are always reasons to speak to an assistant coach, trainer, waterboy or score keeper. His cardiac arrest example was ludicrous but proved that we shouldn't use absolutes when making statements.

TAC has put in his time and knows why it is often pointless to entertain the queries of the assistant from hell. Garth's defense of TAC was noble but it did drift into the personal attack zone. Both of them know that most assistant coaches are good at fungo hitting and butt kissing. Remember the assistant in Bull Durham - the mouth goes a mile a minute but the brain is in park.

Both Pete and TAC make valid arguments. There are times when civility with an assistant is a necessity. Be friendly to the coaches, not friends. Even assistants can earn a few points for helping me out with an irate player. Like TAC said, I typically ignore them unless they can be useful. I think that is what the head coach does too.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Like TAC said, I typically ignore them unless they can be useful.

Do you have a reading problem, Windy? TAC did not say that. TAC said that he ignores them, period. His implication was that they are never useful.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

What's your point, that I ignore coaches unless they are useful or that TAC is wrong to ignore them all of the time?

Like TAC, I ignore assistant coaches...UNLESS...they are civil and can assist me with a baseball related manner.

I happen to agree that most assistant coaches are as important as a missed bus. But, I also think that Pete was correct in stating that you are supposed to behave like a gentleman out there. If an assistant asks me if I want an ice pack for that shot to the thigh, I will politely decline and thank him for the thought. Ignoring him and walking away is a poor choice of behavior.

The new year has done nothing to soften your ability to debate without insults. You've shown us once again that your selective focus borders on stalking. That's a shame and a waste of time.

[Pete in AZ]

Appreciate the help WWTB but I can handle this one. As I said, TAC said something stupid...NEVER talk with assistants. I gave an example from the manual that shows how classless this is. I've been taught at every level to treat people fairly and not act superior. This is the issue I had and it is simple. Do not ignore those involved in the game just because you think you are better than them. That was and is my point. TAC confirmed that his statement and attitude are arrogant. I just told him that it was misinformed and abusive.

[DG]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
I agree, Rich. It saves you having you explain the call again to the manager when he comes out for the discussion. If it's important enough for the team to discuss the call, then it's important enough for the manager to take the lead himself and discuss the call.

With that being said, here's a video clip showing an NCAA umpire discussing a call with a pitching coach after a call on the half inning.
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_video/baseb...5/20050513.wmv
Tim.

It also shows an argument that started between the BU and the 1B coach and ended with further discusison between the PU and the 1B coach.

But the short discussion with the pitching coach was harmless.

Opinions vary, but I am not going to avoid assistants, unless one wants to argue.

[Pete in AZ]

Avoiding them is one thing. Ignoring them, even when they are trying to be helpful is quite another. Tim C. is right to believe that an annoying, aggressive assistant should be dumped or ignored. Garth behaved like his best friend was just dumped. I don't get it; I thought he was older than that. I'm going to bed with a headache from those two.

[Dave Davies]

Well, being from Huntington Beach and living that particular lifestle, I guess I am more laid back than some of you testosterone laced zealots.

My hormones no longer rage, which is a good thing.

I really don't care WHO comes out on me as long as the number is one. If approached, I will communicate with an individual on the field. I am never friendly, but am always cordial and business like. This doesn't necessarily make me right.

We are all individuals who handle situations differently. Some folks are not people friendly and can't handle civil conversations. Others are quite comfortable around others, regardless of whether it is on or off the field.

What is YOUR comfort level out there? That is what is important. How do you best handle YOUR game?

If T or Rich or Garth wants to run their games like Patton, that's Ok with me. That certainly doesn't lessen them in my eyes. And, I am sure that those guys don't have a problem with me running a game in a more laid back style.

This is a gnarly post. Later, Dudes.

Dave

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Garth,

Is it all the rain you guys are getting?


WWTB

[D-Man]

Early in my career, there was this assistant that would tell the base umpire a joke every other inning or so. I thought it was fun. After a while I began to realize I was more than likely being manipulated by this old timer. Once I learned the proper place to stand between innings as a base umpire that never became a problem again. Think how awkward and destrucive a situation that can cause if a whacker at first goes against that "friendly" coach who you have bantered with all game. If any of your jokes back to him were a little off color, he could select some lines to use against you. The humor alone could lead him into saying you don't take the game serious enough.

I try not to be a prick out there, but keep in mind it's probably about 40 against 2. By keeping affective communication lines open with all 40 participants you decrease your own effectiveness.

We all can choose to speak to whomever we choose. It's about keeping control of the game. Different games and individuals can dictate different levels of tolerance. Talk all you want, but when it comes back to bite you in the ***...

D

[GarthB]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Garth,

Is it all the rain you guys are getting?


WWTB

I don't know what that's in reference to. It isn't raining where I am currently enjoying my vacation.

If you read my post you know that I was not commenting, despite what Arizona Pete and Dave Davies assumed, on my opinion of assistant coaches. I was commenting on how our alleged attorney umpire had to resort to the an argument of the extreme and using strawman arguments to attempt to support his position. It reminds me of how junior high students and many politicians attempt to justify their position.

I'll be happy to give you my opinion on assistant coaches if you really want it.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Tim C
Anything I would add to this thread would simply duplicate what has already been said.

So let's look at a bigger picture:

I worked D1 Basketball for 17 seasons. We were taught "assistant coaches don't exist." We were told, in no uncertain terms, to make sure they understood thier position.

I worked D1 baseball for 20 years. In the four geographic areas I worked the consistent message from the Assigining Secretary was "assistant coaches don't exist."

The local culture were I work the assigner teaches every year, "assistant coaches don't exist."

The infrastructure of both the local college group and Federation High School group includes official training that "assistant coaches do not exist."

We have course have our share of "Glad Hand Johnnies" (WWTB and Pete will both admit, I am sure, that these guys that hang around after a game looking for a "Good Job" from the head rat)are a waste of umpire flem, but to be fair and accurate, we have a "shifting scale" as to how serious "assistant coaches don't exist" is taken to the field.

Anyone that is a member of the paid side of this site knows that I wrote a column about (somewhat like WWTZ's example) the day I took a deflected fast ball off my left wrist. The article includes some pretty telling things when I DID talk with assistant coaches during the injury.

I teach umpiring in "Black and White" . . . I perfom my umpiring in "Black and White" . . . I post here in "Black and White."

When a topic like this hits the air waves it is a good experience for the "unwashed" new umpires to see that there may be two ways to look at the issue.

I no longer take things AS personal as I once did.

Nothing in umpiring is THAT important.

The troubling thing that I have discovered, since the collaspe of McGriff, is that the culture has changed on this board. The bigggest change: as people take sides on an issue the lines that are drawn become much more personal and those lines are drawn much more quickly.

Pete's name calling has fallen on deaf ears . . . I will treat assistants as I always have AND I will follow the "wants" of my local group and train umpires with the same philosophy.

Actually in the "big picture" Doug Flutie's drop kick extra point is much more significant than this thread.

This whole post is basically a WOBW.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Jan 2nd, 2006 at 10:54 AM]

But, Tee, what if the civil defense alarms were going off and the Fiji, who had just delcared war on us, air force was flinging nuclear weapon tipped missles at Portland and the assistant coach at first base had the only key to the bomb shelter and had all the known remaining food and water and wouldn't let anybody in unless they talked to him first. How about then, huh? Huh, wise guy, I bet you'd talk to him then.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Pete in AZ
Avoiding them is one thing. Ignoring them, even when they are trying to be helpful is quite another. Tim C. is right to believe that an annoying, aggressive assistant should be dumped or ignored. Garth behaved like his best friend was just dumped. I don't get it; I thought he was older than that. I'm going to bed with a headache from those two.

Well, now you've made me change my mind again. A real attorney knows how to read better.

My post was directed only at the juvenile use of exaggeration and strawman arguments in a rhetorically weak attempt to buttress bullsh1t. Tim's position had nothing to do with my post. The ability to read it, however, did.

[BigUmp56]

Only if it were Doug Flutie as an assistant!


Tim.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_video/baseb...5/20050513.wmv

This video was great. Given that this was #6, how do I see the others?

Send me a personal e-mail if you would like, but I would really like to see the other videos in this series.

Oh, and I'm not an assistant; you can talk to me.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I think I found them:

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/cham...005/index.html