Redass or Candyass?

[Pete in AZ]

Originally posted by NSump
Gang:

I am doing a little research for an upcoming article. You may have seen a preview of the debate "Big finger v. calm dismissal"

Without getting into my article too much, here is my very pointed view of this.

When it gets to the point that you need to toss a guy, don't be shy. Use the BIG FINGER and make sure everyone knows he is gone.

Doing so sends two messages.

1. YOU are in charge. Not the butthead who you just tossed.

2. More importantly, it sends the message to everyone else that certain behaviors will lead to the same fate.

Thoughts? Comments? When would a "calm ejection" be worthwhile (I can't remember ever doing it, so help me here!)

I hope that I'm doing this correctly, I like this question. I have a young son who likes to be, well, a young monster. There are times when I have to yell and times I have to gently urge him to stop. The same applies on the field. WhatWuzThatBlue said that the situation dictates the response and I agree. I don't eject more than a couple a season but they earn them. I used both methods this year. The quiet way, as you put it, was the result of a coach saying that he was irritated by a few calls I made in the field that game. He wouldn't leave but wasn't swearing or making a spectacle of himself. I gave the the ultimatum that I was going to tell his pitcher to get ready and if he was on the field after that he could just head to the bus. He refused to move so I told him that he was ejected, wrote it on my gamecard and announced it to the other team. He walked away mumbling about never seeing anything like us. But- he walked away and kept going all the way to the bus. His assistant later told me that he had been ejected six times that year.

[GerryB]

I agree with the demonstrative dump, given the need to be clear about behavior that is over the line. Most of my ejections would fall in this category. However, last season I had a good D3 team getting killed by a poor team. The better team also had their AD in the dugout, so the coach couldn't misbehave and therefore he needed to make us to do something. I was the base ump and after a close play at second the offending coach calmly came out to me in CF, hands in jacket pockets with the "I'm just here to talk" expression. But when he gets there he says, while looking down at the grass, kicking it "you two really suck today, why don't you just give your fees back and go home". He wanted me to over-react first, and from CF no one has heard us so to all present I would look like the agressor with a big heave, so then he could do his nutty thing. I just say with my hands behind my back "sorry you feel that way, and by the way you don't have to watch anymore, you're gone". Reply "so long as you know you suck", reply "so long as you know you're gone". Off he walks, end of story.

[Carbide Keyman]

One of our finest internet umpires, HHH, has covered this sitch very well:

1) If you are determined to toss the offending party, after quiet , private discussion, tell him/her they are gone in such a way as to get the troll to become unglued.

2) Then, give him the big send-off. Most people who view it will think you had no choice.


This has worked like a charm for me numerous times, maybe it will work for you.



Doug

[GerryB]

Sure that was an option done it before, but what worked for me here was having him have to go back to his AD and tell him he was done...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by thomaswhite

HHH? Translate please.

His High Holiness.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by thomaswhite

Correcting your lie:

Should, no
Do, yes
Optional, absolutely.

Tell me again how impersonal this hatred you have for me is?

Thomas,

If you were to umpire here, the correct answer would be:

Should, hardly
Do, never
Optional, absolutely not!

Navy blue for HS (as the Fed rule dictates)
Lt. Blue Collegiate Style (red,white,blue trim) optional for non-HS games.

White shirts are for the Good Humor Man.

Supe.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Like a fine wine or a beautiful woman, they both have their places.

The heave-ho is beautiful when a player/coach manager crosses the line, is loud and overbearing. There is little point to calmly dumping a guy who is engaged in an F-bomb laced tirade. Eject and walk away...get the game going once the mope is out of earshot.

That said, I've also ejected coaches who actually asked if they had been ejected. I would say yes and they would say that I 'didn't make the big point to the exit'. I would ask if they wanted me to do it or just let them leave with some dignity. On those occassions, the cause was enough to warrant ejection but not enough to escalate it to hystrionics. "Coach, are you done?" Yes. "Okay, then hit the shower, because I agree." No finger pointing or dirt kicking needed. If the others have to question what happened to the coach, then it was a pretty good job of rage control. Sometimes the coach wants to get run and needs the big heave to rally his team. Sometimes I comply and other times I say, "Carl, (or whatever his first name is) You're done here and I won't let you do this to the game. Now get off the field before this costs you." You may not be able to do this and this is not appropriate for all levels of baseball, but it works for me. I treat them with respect 99% of the time and work hard to earn theirs. Without fail, we both know if we've crossed a line.

A while ago, I posted a note on dealing with trouble. I received a couple of responses that said that they like that I alluded to police officers handling arrests. In other words, maintain control, ask questions and escalate your response in direct correlation to the threat that is perceived. Keep your voice low, that makes the other guy look like the aggressor, maintain eye contact (you are in charge after all) and communicate your beliefs. Just because the coach comes charging out spitting and steaming doesn't mean the guy is going to get run. Be aware that your response is even more critical than his. The NCAA has some great video on handling situations. In most cases, Yeast compliments the umpires on their restraint. He even says that the umpires may have been justified in ejecting the offenders even though they didn't. That is not a candyass, that is a pro in NCAA blues.

Dump him how you see fit; the Olympian arm throw or the simple wrist flick are both appropriate and preserve your authority. Use them well and hopefully not often.

I agree completly with this.

I too, have had coaches say, "that was the nicest ejection I have ever seen." Drawing attention to yourself is more of a self ego problem, than a demonstration of professionalism.

In my early years, I actually thought everyone had come to watch me umpire. Boy, do you grow up, when you find out that your just another "BLUE" out there.

I have had my share of "Big Fingers" over the years but, it's more enjoyable watching them trying to figure out how to rattle you, and losing.

[rickfriedmann]

Does an umpire only get to wear white until his first ejection, then he has to wear ivory or off-white?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

His High Holiness.

Always include that I gave Peter that name in an email circulated in the listserv UmpiresTalk.

He liked the pejorative so well, he has turned it into a commendation.

How he did that is a mystery to me!

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Always include that I gave Peter that name in an email circulated in the listserv UmpiresTalk.

He liked the pejorative so well, he has turned it into a commendation.

How he did that is a mystery to me!

ACTUALLY, Carl gave Peter the name "His Holiness", which Peter loved. He signed his posts HH. When this board opened, and Peter tried to register, HH was already taken as a moniker, so Peter added the third "H" making it His High Holiness.

And that's the truth.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by GarthB

ACTUALLY, Carl gave Peter the name "His Holiness", which Peter loved. He signed his posts HH. When this board opened, and Peter tried to register, HH was already taken as a moniker, so Peter added the third "H" making it His High Holiness.

And that's the truth.

Not quite, but close.

Originally, I altered my name to HisHoliness without the space in the name in order to compete with the the buttsnuffler who stole my identity. It then became confusing to the reader to determine whether His Holiness or HisHoliness was posting. Furthermore, there were a couple of posters who objected to the use of the same name as the Pope. One of them was you, Garth. Furthermore, I got a private email expressing the same concern with my blasphemy and, in a rare moment of sensitivity, I inserted the High as in His High Holiness. There it has stuck for over 5 years although I did once consider a promotion to His Humble High Holiness.

BTW, I was told at the time, in the same email from a source on UmpireTalk who objected to my blasphemy, that the buttsnuffler who stole my identity was someone who T. Alan had nicknamed "King of the Snufflers." That person never had the stones to take it on as a moniker.

Peter

[GarthB]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

Not quite, but close.

Originally, I altered my name to HisHoliness without the space in the name in order to compete with the the buttsnuffler who stole my identity. It then became confusing to the reader to determine whether His Holiness or HisHoliness was posting. Furthermore, there were a couple of posters who objected to the use of the same name as the Pope. One of them was you, Garth. Furthermore, I got a private email expressing the same concern with my blasphemy and, in a rare moment of sensitivity, I inserted the High as in His High Holiness. There it has stuck for over 5 years although I did once consider a promotion to His Humble High Holiness.

BTW, I was told at the time, in the same email from a source on UmpireTalk who objected to my blasphemy, that the buttsnuffler who stole my identity was someone who T. Alan had nicknamed "King of the Snufflers." That person never had the stones to take it on as a moniker.

Peter

Not quite, but close.

While I never enjoyed your moniker, or in those days, much of what you posted, I didn't consider it blasphemy. I don't consider much as blasphemy and it's not a word I throw around lightly. Like Carl, I was both confused and annoyed with your ability to turn it into a positive. As you know, I've long since gotten over that.

I was the one Tee dubbed "King of the Butt Snuffler" for my defense of Carl against some charges made by some at McGriffs. We all know what became of McGriffs.

However, I did not steal your moniker. If I had, I'd have used it. I'd probably also have gotten the history of it better.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by GerryB
I agree with the demonstrative dump, given the need to be clear about behavior that is over the line. Most of my ejections would fall in this category. However, last season I had a good D3 team getting killed by a poor team. The better team also had their AD in the dugout, so the coach couldn't misbehave and therefore he needed to make us to do something. I was the base ump and after a close play at second the offending coach calmly came out to me in CF, hands in jacket pockets with the "I'm just here to talk" expression. But when he gets there he says, while looking down at the grass, kicking it "you two really suck today, why don't you just give your fees back and go home". He wanted me to over-react first, and from CF no one has heard us so to all present I would look like the agressor with a big heave, so then he could do his nutty thing. I just say with my hands behind my back "sorry you feel that way, and by the way you don't have to watch anymore, you're gone". Reply "so long as you know you suck", reply "so long as you know you're gone". Off he walks, end of story.

This reminds me of a funny incident that happened to me in 1990. Between innings of a varsity game between two local powerhouses, the visiting coach, who knew me oh so well, came to me on the line between innings. He put his arm on my shoulder casually and said, "you know Steve, I think you're doing a hell of a job out here." At that point I was feeling pretty good about myself. Then he continued, "but you see that guy out there?" He pointed to my partner who was in short right center and said, "he thinks you're horsesh*t!" He cracked me up, and we had a good laugh about it.

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

This reminds me of a funny incident that happened to me in 1990. Between innings of a varsity game between two local powerhouses, the visiting coach, who knew me oh so well, came to me on the line between innings. He put his arm on my shoulder casually and said, "you know Steve, I think you're doing a hell of a job out here." At that point I was feeling pretty good about myself. Then he continued, "but you see that guy out there?" He pointed to my partner who was in short right center and said, "he thinks you're horsesh*t!" He cracked me up, and we had a good laugh about it.

I've told this story often, but new internet generations (two years or so) pop up, so....

In a state playoff competetion I opened behind the plate. The first pitch resulted in a lame bouncer to third, and B1 was out by a lot. I looked up to find the McAllen coach, Lupe Canul, breathing fire: "Get some help. That ball hit him in the box." I convinced him that any of the men who had seen it would have called it. "It's ain't an appeal play, Lupe."

He loses - on the road. The next night, I'm in the rocking chair when Lupe's choice for first-base umpire kicked a routine call. It was so routine, and coach of the team batting and his runner at second had already starfted for the first-base dugout.

Lupe finally got to Fernando, and they talked long enough for me to go for a hogdog and Dr Pepper. Finally, it broke up and Lupe went back to his dugout.

The plate umpire called "Play!"

Lupe called: "Time!" David threw up his hands - and Lupe started for me. For me? We're in the fifth inning, and I called one ball foul.

He arrives, puts his arm around my shoulders, and turned me to face left center. "Carl, I want you to know that next year I'm going to have aides."

Assistant coaches were all the rage at that time, especially in football.

"I think that's great. An extra coach can't hurt."

"Oh, I don't mean that. I mean 'aids,' like what I'm gonna get from the fucI*ing I'm getting from you and Fernie."

Then, he held me very strongly so I didn't collapse on the grass.

When I tell that story, someone also asks: "Did you eject him?"

I always tell the truth: "I asked for his autograph."

I saw Lupe last year at a select 12u tournament. I was calling the plate; his grandson was batting.

Lah, me.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Carl,

I read somewhere that you had retired from umpiring in 1996. Obviously you came out of retirement. When and why? Did you miss it too much?