Interference? (Legion)

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I like your explanation prior to this post, although this one was funny.

You would have to see it in order to give a proper ruling. No hedging, just the simple fact that we know it when we see it. That was well put and covers everything from "Safes" to "Balks". There are too many surprises on the field and often not enough information in written form.
Nice call!

[DG]

Originally posted by jicecone

Dear Mr. Expert

Bite Me

This is my last post on this subjeet to you. You obviously don't get it, and will not admit that your interpretation is in error. Did you watch the NCAA video to which you responded? Obviously not. The ruling was that the runner went in standing, and made contact with the fielder, an obvious violation of FPSR.

Stick to games that don't use NCAA, FED, or American Legion rules and you should have no problem with your FPSR interpretation.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by DG

This is my last post on this subjeet to you. You obviously don't get it, and will not admit that your interpretation is in error. Did you watch the NCAA video to which you responded? Obviously not. The ruling was that the runner went in standing, and made contact with the fielder, an obvious violation of FPSR.

Stick to games that don't use NCAA, FED, or American Legion rules and you should have no problem with your FPSR interpretation.

Oh yea, the video was so dam clear, (which I agreed to), that the official on the field got it wrong.

What interpretation that I would have to see it before I call it. Or maybe I should be like Mr NOITALL and call it from the stands.

Been there , done that son, grow up.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by jicecone

Dear Mr. Expert

Bite Me

j-ice,

Can I borrow this sometime?

I must admit, I haven't worked Legion baseball in several years now, since our association somehow lost that contract too. They used to play by OBR when I did their games. When did they adopt a rule book of their own? Can I obtain a copy through the American Legion? I'm a VFW man myself.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

j-ice,

Can I borrow this sometime?

I must admit, I haven't worked Legion baseball in several years now, since our association somehow lost that contract too. They used to play by OBR when I did their games. When did they adopt a rule book of their own? Can I obtain a copy through the American Legion? I'm a VFW man myself.

American Legion still use OBR and like PONY and some other organizations has a short booklet of added rules, most of which are administrative in nature.

[DG]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

j-ice,

Can I borrow this sometime?

I must admit, I haven't worked Legion baseball in several years now, since our association somehow lost that contract too. They used to play by OBR when I did their games. When did they adopt a rule book of their own? Can I obtain a copy through the American Legion? I'm a VFW man myself.

Maybe they wanted umpires who knew their rules.

http://www.baseball.legion.org/alb_rules.htm

Gotta learn to surf...

[Edited by DG on Nov 21st, 2005 at 07:10 PM]

[jicecone]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

j-ice,

Can I borrow this sometime?

I must admit, I haven't worked Legion baseball in several years now, since our association somehow lost that contract too. They used to play by OBR when I did their games. When did they adopt a rule book of their own? Can I obtain a copy through the American Legion? I'm a VFW man myself.

American Legion wants there games to be called as much by the OBR book as possible with the exception of the FPSR which is by NFHS rules, (almost I think), and this past year it incorporated the NCAA Obstruction rule. Not the NCAA FPSR. Which some here want to believe.

[bossman72]

Thanks large, that's pretty much what the play looks like, only the ball arrives after the collision and the fielder misses the ball.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by bossman72
Thanks large, that's pretty much what the play looks like, only the ball arrives after the collision and the fielder misses the ball.

Wouldn't matter to DG, he would call two outs no matter what happened. ITS TEXTBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[largeone59]

jicecone,

Is there a difference between the NCAA and FED FPSR's? I thought they were pretty much the same thing...

[jicecone]

Originally posted by largeone59
jicecone,

Is there a difference between the NCAA and FED FPSR's? I thought they were pretty much the same thing...

And they are, the differences I am aware of deals with contact necessary for Fed. Whereas NCAA also deals with the intent to make contact.

Also in fed if R1 beats the throw, and the umpire believes that the fielder can not complete the double play, B1 is not automatically out, as in NCAA. Similar to OBR.

Now, in this case because as it was stated, "the ball arrives after the collision" I said that I would have to have seen this before I was convinced there was a violation.

But DG, (and this is his perogative), who knows everything there ever was written about the FPSR, feels differently.

So thats were we stand.

[DG]

Originally posted by largeone59
jicecone,

Is there a difference between the NCAA and FED FPSR's? I thought they were pretty much the same thing...

Very similar. See BRD item 320 for subtle differences. In both, a runner must slide or avoid a fielder receiving a throw, and in neither could a runner come in standing and make contact with a fielder.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by bossman72
obstruction is not the issue here.

this is more of a "slide or avoid" rule question. I think i found the answer in the legion rules:

E. Collision Rule. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid collisions whenever possible.
1. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge: a) Whether the collision by the runner was avoidable (could the runner have reached the base without colliding) or unavoidable (the runner’s path to the base was blocked) or b) Whether the runner was actually attempting to reach the base (plate) or was he attempting to dislodge the ball from the fielder.
PENALTY - If the runner, a) could have avoided the collision and reached the base, or b) attempted to dislodge the ball, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.
Ruling 1: - If the fielder blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate.
Ruling 2: - If the collision by the runner was flagrant, the runner shall be declared out and ejected from the contest. The ball shall be declared dead.


The rule states the fielder has to be in clear posession of the ball for this to take effect, which pretty much answers my question.

*****

NOW, if this exact same type of collision happened on a force play, i'm assuming the runner would be in violation of the FPSR and would be declared out along with the BR, correct?

This might be a help. The Legion rule is copied, word for word, from the NCAA rulebook.

The NCAA is far stricter than the FED about sliding, etc.

You figure it out.

[D-Man]

Nobody needs a FPSR definition because...

WE DON'T HAVE A FORCE PLAY!

P.S. Collision rule, we need.

[BigUmp56]

D-Man,

Was that your best Yoda impersonation?


Collision, bad it is....hmmmmmm....


Hmmm....Is trainwreck Yoda says....

Play on, they must....hmmmmm....



Tim.