Sorry Cub fans...We're not the second team in the second city any more!!!!!!!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Lets see how many big endorsement deals fall in their laps? That is the true measure of popularity in this day and age.

Chicago's own blubbering demagogue, Richard "It Wasn't My Fault" Daley is like a pig in...well, you know. I'm surprised he hasn't painted the streets black and white.
The Sox could lower their ticket prices, re-sign Konerko and get ManRam and the Cubs would still outdraw them.

Hey, how about those first place Bears?

[JRutledge]

This just shows how sad the Cubs fans are. They are more worried about whether the town turns against their team based on the fact that another team actually won the World Series. This is why I cannot stand the Cubs. The Sox won the World Series and just as suspected Cubs fans are trying to figure out how they stack up based on very trivial issues rather than winning.

I am a big time Cardinals fan and I do not care how many people show up to the game, I want to win. It is about championships, not how many people come to the stadium. Maybe that is why the Cardinals keep winning the division every year.

Peace

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by JRutledge
This just shows how sad the Cubs fans are. They are more worried about whether the town turns against their team based on the fact that another team actually won the World Series.

im not worried at all. i know, as well as everyone, that it is still a cubs town. there are no worries.

[Edited by briancurtin on Oct 31st, 2005 at 01:11 AM]

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

The Cardinals keep winning the division...so did the Buffalo Bills.

It is not about how many people turn the gate, it's about repsect, love and admiration. This thread was all about getting a title and expecting respect. That doesn't happen in this world. As JC said, the Marlins won it, the Diamondbacks had their moment in the sun too. Did the world rally around them? The Sox had a great year and deserve to shine. The only problem is that they are still the third or fourth team in this town. The friggin' Bears are drawing attention from them with a 4-3 record!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by briancurtin

im not worried at all. i know, as well as everyone, that it is still a cubs town. there are no worries.

[Edited by briancurtin on Oct 31st, 2005 at 01:11 AM]

I guess it is great to consider the town to be a Cubs' town, but your team will not ever win a championship. Keep giving the Tribune Company your money while the team sucks year in and year out.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Hey Jeff,

The Cubs don't suck. In 2004 and 2005 they were decimated by injuries. I'd like to see how the Cardinals, White Sox or any team for that matter would fare without their #1 and #2 pitchers for significant portions of the season. To win you need to avoid injuries to your key players and you need career years from one or two second line players and your star players have to hold their own. Although a Cub fan I don't hate the Cardinals I've always had respect for their organization because they are competitive every year. As a Cardinal fan you better hope that the Tribune never sells the Cubs. The Cubs have a National following and as such their TV rights are probably comparable to the Yankees. We don't see this because of their relationship to WGN. If a Mark Cuban type or one of these Dot.Com guys ever purchases the Cubs they could easily become the "Evil Empire of the National League".

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by gordon30307
Hey Jeff,

The Cubs don't suck. In 2004 and 2005 they were decimated by injuries. I'd like to see how the Cardinals, White Sox or any team for that matter would fare without their #1 and #2 pitchers for significant portions of the season. To win you need to avoid injuries to your key players and you need career years from one or two second line players and your star players have to hold their own. Although a Cub fan I don't hate the Cardinals I've always had respect for their organization because they are competitive every year. As a Cardinal fan you better hope that the Tribune never sells the Cubs. The Cubs have a National following and as such their TV rights are probably comparable to the Yankees. We don't see this because of their relationship to WGN. If a Mark Cuban type or one of these Dot.Com guys ever purchases the Cubs they could easily become the "Evil Empire of the National League".

Gordon,

Carperter was hurt last year and made it to the World Series. This year Rollin was hurt this year a really big bat in the middle of their lineup. And they made it to the Championship Series this year. We even lost Reyes this year as well for the entire playoffs.

The Cardinals have had injuries every year and still make it into the playoffs and even the LCS during those years. I agree that injuries play a role, but the Cardinals plug in holes with marginal players and they step up. So do not give me the injury excuse. How about getting rid of these pitchers that cannot ever start a season without being on the Disabled list? It sounds like the Cubs have put their future in the hands of players that cannot stay on the field. Of course injuries are apart of the game, but betting the farm on players that never play is just bad decision making.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Gordon,

Carperter was hurt last year and made it to the World Series. This year Rollin was hurt this year a really big bat in the middle of their lineup. And they made it to the Championship Series this year. We even lost Reyes this year as well for the entire playoffs.

The Cardinals have had injuries every year and still make it into the playoffs and even the LCS during those years. I agree that injuries play a role, but the Cardinals plug in holes with marginal players and they step up. So do not give me the injury excuse. How about getting rid of these pitchers that cannot ever start a season without being on the Disabled list? It sounds like the Cubs have put their future in the hands of players that cannot stay on the field. Of course injuries are apart of the game, but betting the farm on players that never play is just bad decision making.

Peace

Hi Jeff,

Whether the Cubs should or should not get rid of injury prone players is not the point. How would the Cardinals fare if they were without Carpenter and Mulder? I don't think they even make the Wild Card. Easier to replace a Rollins or any position player (except for Puljos whose the best hitter on the planet right now) than it is quality starting pitchers.

Most years it take 95 wins to take your Division. Between Mulder and Carpenter you had 35 wins or so. Tough to make up that production with marginal guys.

[spots101]

Well said Rut!!!

The Cubs don't suck?? Where the he** have you been?? Oh, now the injury card has been played. That one has been dealt about as much as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's race card. Kerry Wood had one good year and one good game with all those K's. He hasn't done jack since but yet all you Cub fans keep holdin' on....cuz you got your ace back from the Braves.

Fox Valley Blue 9: How much longer you gonna hold onto that "cursed" crap. It was never suppose to be your year in '03. If it was the Cubs would've won it. This goat thing is just an excuse to be like the BoSox were before they won. At least their's was a lot more believeable and real than a goat. Are the BoSox still cursed because they didn't win this year? How about the Yankees? Are they cursed by egos and the almighty dollar? Ya know, they haven't won since they acquired all those egos. I was so happy when they didn't win last year because it proved that they couldn't buy a championship after getting A-Rod. Steiney will probably go out and spend more money next year and what will it get him....as far as the Cubs went in the "year that was their's".

Yeah, the Sox won with TEAM. So what if their average is below 300 and so what if they don't have marquee players. The fact is they won. And how many of you would do exactly what A. J. did after striking out. He took advantage of an opportunity. The ball was low and I'm sure some of his teammates yelled for him to go from the dugout. He got away with it. Would you stay on first base just because the ball got away from the catcher? No, it's called taking advantage of the other teams mistakes. Yeah, the ump make the out sign but fact was even he wasn't sure and with all of us being umps would you really know for sure? Check the ball for scuff marks, look at the reaction of the catcher, yeah he probably should have done that but just like I've heard and said many times, one play or call doesn't make a game....It's how you react to that play that matters. How many of you have been in a game, made a bad call or mistake, and then heard from the losing team that you lost it for them. That's BS and you know it.

When I heard Houston's coach complaining about the advantage they have when the roof is closed I knew right then before the game that the Sox were going to win game 3. It's that simple. The players fed off of their leader and if he thought they weren't going to win then they believed it.

One of the things mentioned in the ESPN "You can't blame" episode was how Moises Alou reacted. Don't you think fans and players fed off that? If he didn't throw a fit out there in left then do you think the fans and players may have thought that he never really had a play on the ball? Instead, there was an instant mob reaction towards Bartman. Fact was he wasn't the only one going after the ball. But that's mob mentality. Focus your anger on one person or thing and make that your cause for failure. It's no different than hearing a patient in the hospital blame their excessive weight on an outside source (McDonalds, genetics, being big boned, etc.)

WWTB: How far has respect, love and admiration gotten the Cubs? Sure, they have a hell of a following, but then so does a cult. Like Rut said, keep giving the Tribune your money buddy. They love it.

[FVB9]

Jesus Chris Spots, let it go already. I feel years of pentup frustration coming out. Enjoy it already, cause it ain't gonna last!!!

Are the Cubs cursed? Call it what you want. They had their chance in '03 and it got away. That ESPN show you mention was a great show, as was the one about Billy Buck.

You misrepresent the Cubs issues though. Yes, Kerry Wood is the best pitcher in MLB history never to win 14 games. And yes if he comes back healthy, the Wrigley Nation will embrace him. But while the Tribune has done everything ($$$ wise) to try to put a winning team on the field the past five years, they were out to lunch this past year. Clement leaves, Wood and Prior go down, and they did nothing. They have some serious holes going into next year, but they're probably not as far away as you think with a little luck. Oh well, it's water under the bridge now.

As far as the fans go...it's all about supply and demand. Cub fans out number Sox fans at least 4:1 in Chicago, and probably 10:1 nationally. Cubs tickets are a harder buy and if someone doesn't want their tickets, they have 10 buyers lined up. If the Sox had their **** together, they would've built an appealing stadium that would've drawn more fans.

Rut...I wouldn't be talking smack about the Cardinals bud! Great team, but so are the Braves!

[LDUB]

Originally posted by spots101
How much longer you gonna hold onto that "cursed" crap. It was never suppose to be your year in '03. If it was the Cubs would've won it. This goat thing is just an excuse to be like the BoSox were before they won. At least their's was a lot more believeable and real than a goat. Are the BoSox still cursed because they didn't win this year? How about the Yankees? Are they cursed by egos and the almighty dollar? Ya know, they haven't won since they acquired all those egos. I was so happy when they didn't win last year because it proved that they couldn't buy a championship after getting A-Rod. Steiney will probably go out and spend more money next year and what will it get him....as far as the Cubs went in the "year that was their's".

You have it backwards. The Red Sox want to be like the Cubs.

1. A curse on the Red Sox was not widely accepted as fact/myth until after the 1986 World Series.

2. The idea that the Sox curse has something to do with Babe Ruth was not fabricated untill 1986 when George Vecsey wrote an article for the NY Times connecting the numerous Red Sox mistakes in the WS, and their previous non WS win seasons to Babe Ruth.

3. The phrase "Curse of the Bambino" was not coined untill 1990 when Dan Shaughnessy wrote a book with that title about the history of the Red Sox.

4. William "Billy Goat" Sianis had bought tickets for him and his pet goat Murphy for game 4 of the 1945 WS.

5. William "Billy Goat" Sianis and his goat Murphy were kicked out of Wrigley Field during game 4 of the 1945 WS becuase the goat was very foul-smelling.

6. William "Billy Goat" Sianis, sent a telegram to William Wrigley, Jr., owner of the Cubs saying (according to Sianis' nephew) "You are going to lose this (1945) World Series and you are never going to go to the World Series again. You are never going to win a World Series again because you insulted my goat."

So which "curse" is more believeable, one invented by the media, or one where a man hexed a team?

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by spots101
Well said Rut!!!

The Cubs don't suck?? Where the he** have you been?? Oh, now the injury card has been played. That one has been dealt about as much as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's race card. Kerry Wood had one good year and one good game with all those K's. He hasn't done jack since but yet all you Cub fans keep holdin' on....cuz you got your ace back from the Braves.

Fox Valley Blue 9: How much longer you gonna hold onto that "cursed" crap. It was never suppose to be your year in '03. If it was the Cubs would've won it. This goat thing is just an excuse to be like the BoSox were before they won. At least their's was a lot more believeable and real than a goat. Are the BoSox still cursed because they didn't win this year? How about the Yankees? Are they cursed by egos and the almighty dollar? Ya know, they haven't won since they acquired all those egos. I was so happy when they didn't win last year because it proved that they couldn't buy a championship after getting A-Rod. Steiney will probably go out and spend more money next year and what will it get him....as far as the Cubs went in the "year that was their's".

Yeah, the Sox won with TEAM. So what if their average is below 300 and so what if they don't have marquee players. The fact is they won. And how many of you would do exactly what A. J. did after striking out. He took advantage of an opportunity. The ball was low and I'm sure some of his teammates yelled for him to go from the dugout. He got away with it. Would you stay on first base just because the ball got away from the catcher? No, it's called taking advantage of the other teams mistakes. Yeah, the ump make the out sign but fact was even he wasn't sure and with all of us being umps would you really know for sure? Check the ball for scuff marks, look at the reaction of the catcher, yeah he probably should have done that but just like I've heard and said many times, one play or call doesn't make a game....It's how you react to that play that matters. How many of you have been in a game, made a bad call or mistake, and then heard from the losing team that you lost it for them. That's BS and you know it.

When I heard Houston's coach complaining about the advantage they have when the roof is closed I knew right then before the game that the Sox were going to win game 3. It's that simple. The players fed off of their leader and if he thought they weren't going to win then they believed it.

One of the things mentioned in the ESPN "You can't blame" episode was how Moises Alou reacted. Don't you think fans and players fed off that? If he didn't throw a fit out there in left then do you think the fans and players may have thought that he never really had a play on the ball? Instead, there was an instant mob reaction towards Bartman. Fact was he wasn't the only one going after the ball. But that's mob mentality. Focus your anger on one person or thing and make that your cause for failure. It's no different than hearing a patient in the hospital blame their excessive weight on an outside source (McDonalds, genetics, being big boned, etc.)

WWTB: How far has respect, love and admiration gotten the Cubs? Sure, they have a hell of a following, but then so does a cult. Like Rut said, keep giving the Tribune your money buddy. They love it.

Typical Sox Fan. Nothing drives them crazier than the local and National following that the Cubs have.

No they don't suck I merely stated a fact. For the last two seasons the Cubs #1 and #2 pitchers have missed significant playing time. If Buerhle and Garland were gone thats 70 starts and 34 wins that need to be replaced. I don't know of many teams that can overcome that.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by FVB9
Rut...I wouldn't be talking smack about the Cardinals bud! Great team, but so are the Braves!

The Cardinals have been to the World Series 4 times in my lifetime. How many times has the Cubs been to the World Series in your lifetime?

When we do not make the World Series it is the players that did not come through. When you do not make the World Series, it is some curse. Let it go. Just face it if the Cubs went 0-82, Cubs fans would still go to Wrigley Field and you would be right back he talking about what the Cardinals did not do. Now that the Sox won the WS, instead of being happy, you are concerned about who is first in town. Win a World Series in this Century and we can talk about whose town this is.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by gordon30307
Typical Sox Fan. Nothing drives them crazier than the local and National following that the Cubs have.

No they don't suck I merely stated a fact. For the last two seasons the Cubs #1 and #2 pitchers have missed significant playing time. If Buerhle and Garland were gone thats 70 starts and 34 wins that need to be replaced. I don't know of many teams that can overcome that.

No, you gave away more than 40 homeruns on your corner fielders. You let your #3 Pitcher go before this season and he was in the playoffs, where were the Cubs again? You let go a guy that carried the team for years. I will give you the fact that Sosa did not have the best attitude, but you did not replace his production. You have one of the best managers in the Majors and fans want to get rid of him too. I have listened to this crap all this time I have been here and the Cubs have done nothing but complain when you have good players. You have to have a better excuse than your top two pitchers are down all the time. They have not come through when they were healthy. It is not just their injuries. Just take the fact that your organization had its shot and they blew it. Next year the Cubs will have another bad year and it will be some other excuse as to why you cannot get it done.

Peace

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally posted by JRutledge

The Cardinals have been to the World Series 4 times in my lifetime. How many times has the Cubs been to the World Series in your lifetime?

When we do not make the World Series it is the players that did not come through. When you do not make the World Series, it is some curse. Let it go. Just face it if the Cubs went 0-82, Cubs fans would still go to Wrigley Field and you would be right back he talking about what the Cardinals did not do. Now that the Sox won the WS, instead of being happy, you are concerned about who is first in town. Win a World Series in this Century and we can talk about whose town this is.

Peace

JC, you and I agree on very little, but here is one. Both of us have congratulated the White Sox, their fans and recognize that something special occurred at 35th and Shields this year. We would both have like it to be our Cubbies, but we knew better. J.Rutledge needs to read better. This thread was begun on the premise that the White Sox are not number two in Chicago anymore. Again, we both know better. If they need that fantasy to give them validity, let them have it. Your point about the Braves was almost as damning as mine about the Buffalo Bills. Taking the hottest woman home from the bar is only half the deal. The Cards and Bills fell asleep when they got there.

The Sox have their moment and will take some momentum into the 2006 season. Reinsdorf will raise the ticket prices and feel content with half full stands. Meanwhile, the Cubs will have full stands, an above average team (but still not playoff caliber) and throngs of fans across the country. Yes, the Cubs have a cultlike following. What do you think the old Montreal, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Arizona, Kansas City, Minnesota or Milwaukee would give to have that same love?

Kudos to the Sox. Cubs fans changed hats and rooted for the boys in black. A few years ago, White Sox fans behaved like babies when the Cubs went to the NLCS. Imagine what would have happened if this were the other way around. Sox fans would be cryng that if they had a ball park like Wrigley and played against the National Laegue all of the time they would have won too. It's getting old and we don't care. Cubs and Sox fans are like oil and water. We may prefer Chardonnay over Malt Liquor, but we still appreciate good baseball.