You can't talk to the batter!

[dudeinblue]

Alright, I had this happen tonight in the AA USSSA 12 year old world series.

The batter is up and I am the PU. He lets 2 beautiful pitches go by that are belt high on the outside corner. After both pitches, he throws his hands up and rolls his eyes and head as if they were terrible calls.

So I say to him in a calm manner, "Batter those balls are strikes buddy, you better swing the bat." The next pitch he swings at a ball 2 feet over his head and strikes out, only to again throw his hands up once more as if it was my mistake. Well, he goes in the dugout and tells about the 4th dugout bench assistant coach (probably his dad), that the umpire was talking to him while he was hitting and that's why he struck out.

So in between innings the guy comes up to me in a calm manner and say, "Blue our player said you were talking to him while he was hitting." So I say, "Well coach, he threw his hands up at me twice and was rolling his eyes and head at me, so I told him that the pitches were strikes and that he better swing the bat."

So the guy points a finger in my face and says, "Don't you ever talk to the batter blue, you do your job. Your job isn't to talk to the batter, don't ever do that again." So I say, "Coach, you don't tell me how to do my job, now go and sit down in the dugout." He says "No, I'm not gonna do it, don't talk to the batters, do your job." I said, "Coach, I'm not gonna tell you again, go sit down, I don't wanna hear another word from you."

He refuses and continues to tell me to do my job, so after warning him for about a 3rd time, I finally say, "You're out of here". So he says naturally, "For WHAT!". So the sherriff behind the back stop says "Lets go coach". And the coach takes a while to leave and I tell him, "Coach, you have 30 seconds to leave this field." He says, "Before what, you kick my a$$?" I said, "No, before your team has to forfeit."

Well, he finally leaves, and of course the team was down 9-0 and ended up getting run-ruled. You might be saying, "Why the heck did Dude post this?"

Well, reason being because I want to hear from you how I handled the situation, what I could or should have done, what your thoughts are on the situation, what you would have done, etc. Feel free to critique me, even if that means calling me a f-ing idiot. Thanks alot

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
So the guy points a finger in my face

gone, but if you wanted to wait a few seconds you had like 10 more opportunities before you actually dumped him.

[Tim C]

Dude:

It appears that you get everything you deserve.

[SoCalUmp]

I think you handled this like crap. One don't tell the batter to swing the bat. All you have to say is "those are good pitches" and leave it at that, don't make things worse.

As for the coach and everything he did, it shouldn't matter all that he did........ he is an assistant coach and as soon as he mouthed off, should have been immeadiatly warned then ejected if he kept going. Please explain to me why you would keep an assistant coach around so long. As soon as he opens his mouth warn then eject and you wouldn't have had as many problems.

ANd never ever threaten a forfiet... that is a pus*y way out of a situation. He has to leave, don't take the game out of the player's hands and be the big shot. Just stay out there and let the kids decide the game.

Rob's 2 cents.

[JugglingReferee]

I have a hard time telling a player to swing the bat when you have no idea what/where the next pitch will be.

I would have said, "Batter those pitches are strikes." Maybe also "If the same pitch comes, consider swinging the bat," but even that is a stretch.

I agree with above - once the guys plants a finger in your face, he's gone.

When you said, "I don't want to hear another word from you," what if he then said another word, either to you (but was positive), or he stayed and talked to his team, or something else like that. Your comment sounded a bit like an ultimatum. What about, "Coach, I'm not gonna tell you again, go sit down, as this conversation is over."

[LDUB]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
So the guy points a finger in my face and says

You allow the 4th coach on the bench to do this? You must allow the manager to slap you durring an arguement.

You should have ejected the guy much earlier, and don't set a time limit for him to get off the field. If it took him 31 sec to get off the field, were you really going to forfeit the game?

[dudeinblue]

I agree, I should have dumped the coach earlier. I was just trying to be more lenient and not the big, bad, power happy umpire that throws everybody out. But all of you are right, It shouldn't have lasted that long. Thanks for the advice about saying "you better swing the bat" as well. I definately should have said something to the kid, but the "you better swing the bat part could have been left out. But even if I didn't say that, there still would have been an argument, as the coach was complaining about me talking to the batter.

Also, about the 30 seconds thing. This is just the way most guys around here handle it when coaches lurk around after being tossed. Sometimes they will refuse to leave, sometimes they continue to argue and would be there all night if you let them, etc. It gets them off the field real quick but I can see why some of you think it is stupid. As for Tim's "Dude you get everything you deserve" post, can you be a little more clear on that. I mean, I expected a smarta$$ comment from you, but can you please explain why I got what I deserved? Thanks alot.

[drumbum565]

I agree with most of the above replies. Personally I would have ignored him rolling his eyes and such unless he starts questioning my calls verbally or he like looks at me with his eyes the size of baseballs and his chin dropped I will ignore it. And I especially agree with LDUB one thing I tell the people at the meeting i want only the managers to address me if a coach steps out of that dugout without calling time (exception between inngs on his way to or from the coaches box) they are gone right there (I’ve had some problems with teams around here) and if they call time and they want to talk to me I say sit back down and have your mangier come out and talk to me. I feel for one this eliminates the well you told that coach but you didn’t tell me crap; I talk to 1 person from the team and one alone. Also it prevents grandparents, aunts, uncles and, second cousins once removed from coming out and arguing.
However the one thing I don’t agree with is the comment Scallop made. When I started when I was fourteen it was in a summer rec league that had its own set of rules and everything not covered in it went by federation. And in these rules stated that if a player or mangier had 1 minute to leave the park property after being ejected or his team forfeited

[BigUmp56]

dudeinblue,

Are you sure that as an umpire you can forfeit a USSSA tournament game? You did say this was the national tournament right?(World Series)

Saying to a coach or player " one more word and your gone ",
is referred to as the " old bait and hook ", and is very unprofessional. Simply tell the party in question that you are through with this discussion, and walk away. If he follows, then you eject him.

Just as you don't signal to a pitcher where he is missing when you call a pitch a ball, you don't offer information to a batter as to where a pitch was that you called a strike. It's your job to call them, and it's his job to figure out where you are calling them. This is a part of the game.

I'm curious as to where in the country you are calling games in the USSSA world series.

These are sophomorish mistakes, and you will learn to correct them with more experience.

Tim.
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As umpires, we are the only ones in the world expected to be perfect on our first day on the job, and improve from there!

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Jul 28th, 2005 at 12:38 AM]

[SoCalUmp]

Originally posted by drumbum565
I agree with most of the above replies. Personally I would have ignored him rolling his eyes and such unless he starts questioning my calls verbally or he like looks at me with his eyes the size of baseballs and his chin dropped I will ignore it. And I especially agree with LDUB one thing I tell the people at the meeting i want only the managers to address me if a coach steps out of that dugout without calling time (exception between inngs on his way to or from the coaches box) they are gone right there (I’ve had some problems with teams around here) and if they call time and they want to talk to me I say sit back down and have your mangier come out and talk to me. I feel for one this eliminates the well you told that coach but you didn’t tell me crap; I talk to 1 person from the team and one alone. Also it prevents grandparents, aunts, uncles and, second cousins once removed from coming out and arguing.
However the one thing I don’t agree with is the comment Scallop made. When I started when I was fourteen it was in a summer rec league that had its own set of rules and everything not covered in it went by federation. And in these rules stated that if a player or mangier had 1 minute to leave the park property after being ejected or his team forfeited

Scallop?? Hahaha Dumbdrum you are a funny man. You obviously have not worked big boyball. In any College or HS level game if you declaired a forfeit over a coach not leaving the field you are as a big of a fuc*ing schmuck as all of your posts lead me to believe. Even in youth ball are you really going to take a game away from kids over one idiot? Go back to your tball games "Charlie".

[mrm21711]

Originally posted by dudeinblue

So I say to him in a calm manner, "Batter those balls are strikes buddy, you better swing the bat."

Not the best thing to say. Dont be so combative, especially if he didnt say anything

So I say, "Well coach, he threw his hands up at me twice and was rolling his eyes and head at me, so I told him that the pitches were strikes and that he better swing the bat."

So the guy points a finger in my face and says, "Don't you ever talk to the batter blue, you do your job. Your job isn't to talk to the batter, don't ever do that again."

That sounds like crying when you say "Well he threw his hands up." When you say he better swing the bat, why do you care? If he takes three looking, is that a problem? And the pointing = an ejection, but Luke pointed out you had sufficient opportunities after this.

He refuses and continues to tell me to do my job, so after warning him for about a 3rd time, I finally say, "You're out of here". So he says naturally, "For WHAT!". So the sherriff behind the back stop says "Lets go coach". And the coach takes a while to leave and I tell him, "Coach, you have 30 seconds to leave this field." He says, "Before what, you kick my a$$?" I said, "No, before your team has to forfeit."

You waited way too long. Third warning? They are worthless if you continue to "warn" people.

Well, he finally leaves, and of course the team was down 9-0 and ended up getting run-ruled. You might be saying, "Why the heck did Dude post this?"

I remember you giving it to Tee a while back on a previous post about your experience and so forth. That really says a lot after this post. Also, I was saying "Why the heck" way before I got to the end of the post.

[dudeinblue]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
dudeinblue,

Are you sure that as an umpire you can forfeit a USSSA tournament game? You did say this was the national tournament right?(World Series)

Yes, I am sure. I checked with the tournament director. Although such a warning should not be necessary as they have a police officer on-site. The warning should not have been issued. My mistake for that. Although I do think it is appropriate in some situations (depending on the tournament, age group, situation, etc.).

Saying to a coach or player " one more word and your gone ",
is referred to as the " old bait and hook ", and is very unprofessional. Simply tell the party in question that you are through with this discussion, and walk away. If he follows, then you eject him.

Good advice. I'll be sure and do this next time.

Just as you don't signal to a pitcher where he is missing when you call a pitch a ball, you don't offer information to a batter as to where a pitch was that you called a strike. It's your job to call them, and it's his job to figure out where you are calling them. This is a part of the game.

Yeah, you're right. It's tough to sit and ignore a 12 year old kid throwing his arms up after every pitch and rolling his head and eyes. I just felt according to the situation, something needed to be said to him.

I'm curious as to where in the country you are calling games in the USSSA world series.

Knoxville, TN. USSSA has alot of national tournaments. Knoxville is one of like 5 locations for the AA division.

These are sophomorish mistakes, and you will learn to correct them with more experience.

It's because I'm a sophomore umpire. This is only my 3rd year calling. The assignor likes me alot and I call a ton of games for him so he hooks me up. Many umpires here would tell me I handled it well, but I wanted a more professional, thought out, opinion from you guys as to how you would handle this. Bottom line, the coach should have been tossed so it happened. It was all of the things in between that I was unsure of. Thanks for the advice Tim.

Tim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As umpires, we are the only ones in the world expected to be perfect on our first day on the job, and improve from there!

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Jul 28th, 2005 at 12:38 AM]

[dudeinblue]

Originally posted by mrm21711


I remember you giving it to Tee a while back on a previous post about your experience and so forth. That really says a lot after this post. Also, I was saying "Why the heck" way before I got to the end of the post.







[/B]

mrm, I have always been very clear about my experience. I am a young 21 year old boy who is in his 3rd year of umpiring. If you say this post proves I have no experience, then it's correct. I don't have much experience. Do I need to spell it out for you?

[SoCalUmp]

Before you come off as an @sshole did you ever think maybe mrm hasn't read any of your previous posts??

[dudeinblue]

If you read his post, obviously he has. I am not coming off as an @sshole, I was just explaining that I don't have much experience.

"I remember you giving it to Tee a while back on a previous post about your experience and so forth. That really says a lot after this post. Also, I was saying "Why the heck" way before I got to the end of the post."

Gee, I wonder if mrm has read any of my previous posts? Well, I better think about what I say b/c maybe he hasn't.

dumba$$