13-15 yr Old Summer Fun

[dudeinblue]

Good one Brain. You got me so much that I am speechless and I'll just let you look like a fool on this one.

[tcarilli]

Dude if you are happy doing the job of the administrator, well then god bless you. It seems that you are pretty sure that you've got all the answers which, I guess, is OK for a young umpire (or someone who is new to umpiring, which is the same thing). We have a enough to do on the field without concerning ourselves with the stands, I think. But the rules makers and administrators (league or tournament or whatever) are happy having us be the bad guys...do you blame them? Really, who wants to be the bad guy? Certaintly not the administrators or nongame officials. It's really a simple case of pushing the cost of something on to somebody else. Some of us gladly accept that cost, while others of us don't or won't. Doing our jobs on the field is usually enough to make alot of the fans mad at us, why go stick your head into the lion's mouth if you don't have to?

Finally, I can assure you this, if your goal is to move up beyond put-a-bunch-of-letters-together baseball you really shouldn't conern yourself with fans...period.

Tony

[tcarilli]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
Any of the big dogs please let me know if we are supposed to "never" throw out fans even considering the age of the players. DG? Carl? DownTown? Mick? Bob?

Yes, do not throw them out. The fan's aren't 10 year olds (although the act that way). The fan's you are talking about are typically adults, not children. I think the age of the players is a smoke screen you are using to justify something you just shouldn't do. Ignore them always. The fans who are offended are ignoring them, hoping somebody else will take care of the problem so should you.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
Good one Brain. You got me so much that I am speechless and I'll just let you look like a fool on this one.

there is a fence around the field for a reason, to separate the players/umpires from the fans. it separates the game from the outside. if you want to handle the fans and what goes on outside of the fence, become a park police officer. if you want to deal with whats inside the fence, be an umpire. very, very seldom do the two mix in my eyes.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
Okay Lawrence, we must have been a little confused then man, because that's what I was talking about.... little kids baseball. I know, you're exactly right about the older kids and I agree 100%. We just miscommunicated a little bit, sounds to me as if we're on the exact same page on this issue. It is a norm around here but not for me, I don't agree with it other than in extreme situations like the one I cited earlier either. Sorry if I sounded like a smart-alec on the earlier post. So Tim C, what would you do in the situation I posted earlier? Keep ignoring? Please tell me because I am curious to know. Any of the big dogs please let me know if we are supposed to "never" throw out fans even considering the age of the players. DG? Carl? DownTown? Mick? Bob?

Well seeing how I started this brohahah (sp?), I am going to jump in here and I don't know what size my dog really is on this forum.

Twice, in 20 years I have had to have unruly fans taken care of in baseball. Once in a LL tournament and one in Legion ball. Each time I got someone to do my dirty work for me.

The first time the dad was drunk and kept telling his son the pitcher to hit the batters in the head because they were losing. "That will stop their hitting ," he said. It got to the point that we had the tourament director come to the field and take care of him.

The second time I was in a heated argument was because the batter moved in a way, in the box, (with a runner on third), that I felt caused the pitcher to stop his motion. I called time and said that we would restart the pitch.

The manager came out and argued that there was no such thing as a "do over." In the middle of our heated, nose to nose discussion a fan yelled from behind the back stop, "Punch him out, coach." At the end of our discussion I said, "Coach, this is the way it is and the discussion is over. Now will you kindly take care of that fan." His reply was, "Your dead wrong and yes I will."

I can't say that you are NEVER, EVER suppose to deal directly with the fans or that it is totally possible to ignor every remark out there, because too many different scenarios happen. But, for the most part staying calm, cool and collective has always helped me to make better, and more rational decisions, in some very sticky moments.

MOST OF ALL, I think it frys their Butts even more, knowing they can't get to me.

Just My Opinion.

[PeteBooth]

He asks if I asks if that type of situation would occur again if I would say "infield fly" louder.

I agree with Jicecone, Lawrence and TEE. As they say in Brooklyn NY when it comes to Fans - "Forget about it" If the Fan is that unruly and making it virtually impossible to continue to do the game then let the TD / Coaches handle. If they do not it's an easy pay-day.

IMO, the point that no-one has brought up concerning this post is why you bothered to respond to a coach who said "if I would say "infield fly" louder".

My response would be "What did you say I can't hear you"
Do not even converse with coaches who Do not know the rules and are that ignorant. They got "burned" and are now trying to put the blame on blue. Simply walk off into right field somewhere and do not even respond to such nonsense. Chances are the Coach will not follow.

As umpires we simply give the rule and respond to questions about the interpretation of it and that's it. We do not RESPOND to "can we say it louder next time"

Chances are if you simply walked away none of the fan nonsense would have occured as well.

Pete Booth

[dudeinblue]

It would be nice if some of you all would read previous posts. I NEVER throw out fans with the exception of one time. I'm not trying to play administrator Tony. What you all are describing by saying tell the coach or the TD, is basically throwing them out anyways. A fan is not going to leave if you (as an umpire) tell him, you have to get the TD or tell the coach to handle it. Any way you look at it, it is throwing the fan out, even if you dont say directly to the fan "you're out of here!".

[briancurtin]

angel hernandez got randy marsh to call the pressbox and have former chicago bear steve mcmichael ejected from wrigley field when he sang the 7th inning stretch and said he would have a talk with angel for out he called at home plate to end the bottom of the 6th. i thought that was hilarious

[tcarilli]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
It would be nice if some of you all would read previous posts. I NEVER throw out fans with the exception of one time. I'm not trying to play administrator Tony. What you all are describing by saying tell the coach or the TD, is basically throwing them out anyways. A fan is not going to leave if you (as an umpire) tell him, you have to get the TD or tell the coach to handle it. Any way you look at it, it is throwing the fan out, even if you dont say directly to the fan "you're out of here!".

Carefully read what I wrote. I didn't write that you were playing administrator. I wrote that nongame officials are trying to get you to do their job. You wrote in an earlier post that

That's one of the main reasons to eject a parent...

This implies that not only other there other reasons to eject parents, but also that there are other main reasons to eject parents.

Furthermore, if you are going to exhort me to read earlier posts, please do the same. I did not write that you should have the fan removed. I wrote that you should ignore the fans. If the nongame officials want the fans to behave let them take care of it. No where did I write that you should have someone else remove them.

Please be careful to whom you address your exhortions. I try, carefully, to chose my words when I give advice to young umpires. I neither wrote nor implied that you have thrown fans out multiple times. I did however, suggest, that concerning yourself with things outside the fence is not productive in a number of ways including managing what is going on on the field and advancing beyond alphabet-soup baseball.

[dudeinblue]

Careful with your words. I like that and probably need to do more of that. Also, good criticism of my previous post about "main reasons to eject parents". Sometimes I type without thinking. But you did type:

"Dude if you are happy doing the job of the administrator, well then god bless you"

From this I imply that you are saying I am playing the job of administrator. Is this a wrong implication?

[tcarilli]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
Careful with your words. I like that and probably need to do more of that. Also, good criticism of my previous post about "main reasons to eject parents". Sometimes I type without thinking. But you did type:

"Dude if you are happy doing the job of the administrator, well then God bless you"

From this I imply that you are saying I am playing the job of administrator. Is this a wrong implication?

Yes, it is. Playing administrator and being the administrator are two different things. Non-game officials take care of non-game issues, ie, outside the fence. Umpires (game officials) take care of things inside the fence. Again, I don't think it productive to wear both hats. As Adam Smith taught us in the Wealth of Nations, specialization leads to increased productivity. But, hey, if you are happy assuming the role of both game and non-game official be forwarned that your productivity as each will be greatly diminshed.

[dudeinblue]

I don't play both and never said that I do. Again, read previous posts and you will see my explanation and opinion on the matter

[DG]

First time this weekend, I ever dealt with a fan. In a State Tournament final for 16-18 year olds a batter was hit by a pitch. A fan started cussing, and I asked the tournament folks to get rid of the cusser. They said they did not know who it was so I pointed him out, the guy in the yellow shirt. The fans were hollering that it was his son that got hit, and I said that don't matter, and then returned to the plate where his coaches (and the coaches from the other team had brought ice out of their dugout) were helping him. He appeared to be in great pain, but after a few minutes he was able to 1B continue playing. However, he was subbed for on defense and returned later in the game after sitting in the dugout with ice on his forearm. The administration apparently had a discussion with the father because he stayed in the park but did not cuss anymore. Apparently, he convinced them he could behave. Alls well that ends well.

[Diamondgal]

Everywhere we go there will be that one obnoxious fan or parent. Asking me why I was still talking would not warrant an ejection from me. That would be an easy comment for me to deal with. I've never thrown a fan even when they've loudly stated that I must be sleeping with the entire amateur town ball team since they got all the calls going their way. Or being called a b***** or worse. Is it easy to ignore? Not always. I think it helps to work hard at the game....hustle, be in position,study rules, sell calls, etc. Those things will breed more confidence in yourself which lead to more respect on the field and less of a desire or urge to have the fans affect your attitude. There's an umpire in our association that has been getting sucked in by the fans and engaging in negative banner with them this summer. The result?? The managers and coaches don't want to see him anymore. I'm not sticking up for the fans. They can be ridiculous at times. But if I allowed them to get to me it could wreak havoc on my game...something I don't want.

P.S. After the game when I was accused of sleeping with the team, I had some fans ask if they could be put on the roster as well. That actually shut down the original comments and gave me a much needed chuckle.

[dudeinblue]

This is the exact way I would handle it. I have to ask though, did you have to pause the game or leave the field to find the tournament folks? I can make an observation that you didn't since the boy was hurt for a while. But for all of you who think I try to play TD, this is EXACTLY how I would handle this