The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 04:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 209
I'm actually surprised that there isn't more discussion of Mr. Christensen's articles in the Forum. Perhaps many of the regulars aren't also subscribers. I've found them the bright spot in the Baseball section lately; if I renew my subscription, Tee will have most of the credit for it.

In his latest column, he discusses umpire training and working with those that lack it. As do most of you in the Forum, Tee is quick to notice when an umpire appears out of the ordinary.

I wonder what Tee would do if I showed up to work a game with him on the bases. I wouldn't have a ball bag or a "base brush" (I haven't ever carried these on the bases). No clindicator to give me away, as I haven't used one of those on the bases for 4 years or so. My socks match, my shoes are polished, and my one base hat without insignia is navy blue, matching my pullover. If he looks closely, he might see the unfaded spot on my left shoulder.

But I'll probably be a disaster during the game. My 90' two-man mechanics are pretty rusty, and they were never perfect. (I learned "on-the-job" from a pretty good association trained umpire a few years ago; I can't tell if this counts as training or experience.) Most importantly, I don't know squat about FED rules. Tee will eventually catch me as an imposter. It might be when I miss R1's touch at 2B, or perhaps when I fail to call a "gorilla-arm" balk, but I'll eventually be found out.

So, if things like proper mechanics and rules knowledge are really so important, we do we focus on appearance so much? (I include myself in this, or I wouldn't be able to fool Tee in the parking lot.) Why is it important to kick the dirt off of 2B, if necessary, rather than brush it off?

-LL
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 05:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Greater Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 611
Send a message via Yahoo to umpduck11
LilLeaguer:

What is the first thing you notice about
a police officer? My bet is that it is their
manner of dress. The way you are dressed makes
a strong impression on people when they first
meet you,and on people who do not know you well.
If you present yourself in a professional manner,
you will be respected more than if you looked
shabby. I have seen in action the fact that a sloppy
looking umpire will get more questioning of his calls,
and more sh*t in general.
Besides,the way I dress is a matter of pride to me.
The better I look,the better I feel......
__________________
All generalizations are bad. - R.H. Grenier
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 05:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally posted by umpduck11
LilLeaguer:

What is the first thing you notice about
a police officer? My bet is that it is their
manner of dress. The way you are dressed makes
a strong impression on people when they first
meet you,and on people who do not know you well.
If you present yourself in a professional manner,
you will be respected more than if you looked
shabby. I have seen in action the fact that a sloppy
looking umpire will get more questioning of his calls,
and more sh*t in general.
Besides,the way I dress is a matter of pride to me.
The better I look,the better I feel......
Sure, for normal grooming that anybody will notice (e.g. uniform, neatness, etc.) But we care about some pretty arcane stuff.

Following the police analogy, in The Blue Knight Joseph Wambaugh's character complains about the change in night-stick handles from leather straps to rubber rings. It was important to him and how he felt as an officer, but I'm sure that nobody on his beat even noticed.

If umpires didn't make a big deal about it, I doubt if anybody else would notice a base umpire using a brush to clean off a base, either. So, why do we care?

-LL
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 05:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by LilLeaguer
I'm actually surprised that there isn't more discussion of Mr. Christensen's articles in the Forum. Perhaps many of the regulars aren't also subscribers. I've found them the bright spot in the Baseball section lately; if I renew my subscription, Tee will have most of the credit for it.

In his latest column, he discusses umpire training and working with those that lack it. As do most of you in the Forum, Tee is quick to notice when an umpire appears out of the ordinary.

I wonder what Tee would do if I showed up to work a game with him on the bases. I wouldn't have a ball bag or a "base brush" (I haven't ever carried these on the bases). No clindicator to give me away, as I haven't used one of those on the bases for 4 years or so. My socks match, my shoes are polished, and my one base hat without insignia is navy blue, matching my pullover. If he looks closely, he might see the unfaded spot on my left shoulder.

But I'll probably be a disaster during the game. My 90' two-man mechanics are pretty rusty, and they were never perfect. (I learned "on-the-job" from a pretty good association trained umpire a few years ago; I can't tell if this counts as training or experience.) Most importantly, I don't know squat about FED rules. Tee will eventually catch me as an imposter. It might be when I miss R1's touch at 2B, or perhaps when I fail to call a "gorilla-arm" balk, but I'll eventually be found out.

So, if things like proper mechanics and rules knowledge are really so important, we do we focus on appearance so much? (I include myself in this, or I wouldn't be able to fool Tee in the parking lot.) Why is it important to kick the dirt off of 2B, if necessary, rather than brush it off?

-LL
Were you ever in the military? If so, didn't you learn the importance of appearance there? If not, never mind.
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 06:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally posted by GarthB
Quote:
Originally posted by LilLeaguer
I'm actually surprised that there isn't more discussion of Mr. Christensen's articles in the Forum. Perhaps many of the regulars aren't also subscribers. I've found them the bright spot in the Baseball section lately; if I renew my subscription, Tee will have most of the credit for it.

In his latest column, he discusses umpire training and working with those that lack it. As do most of you in the Forum, Tee is quick to notice when an umpire appears out of the ordinary.

I wonder what Tee would do if I showed up to work a game with him on the bases. I wouldn't have a ball bag or a "base brush" (I haven't ever carried these on the bases). No clindicator to give me away, as I haven't used one of those on the bases for 4 years or so. My socks match, my shoes are polished, and my one base hat without insignia is navy blue, matching my pullover. If he looks closely, he might see the unfaded spot on my left shoulder.

But I'll probably be a disaster during the game. My 90' two-man mechanics are pretty rusty, and they were never perfect. (I learned "on-the-job" from a pretty good association trained umpire a few years ago; I can't tell if this counts as training or experience.) Most importantly, I don't know squat about FED rules. Tee will eventually catch me as an imposter. It might be when I miss R1's touch at 2B, or perhaps when I fail to call a "gorilla-arm" balk, but I'll eventually be found out.

So, if things like proper mechanics and rules knowledge are really so important, we do we focus on appearance so much? (I include myself in this, or I wouldn't be able to fool Tee in the parking lot.) Why is it important to kick the dirt off of 2B, if necessary, rather than brush it off?

-LL
Were you ever in the military? If so, didn't you learn the importance of appearance there? If not, never mind.
Several of the earliest "practical" things I learned how to do in my chosen profession have NOTHING to do with how good I am at the actual work: they are all about first impressions and acting like you know what you are doing. Lawyers who do things that they aren't "supposed" to do in court, even harmless, maybe even helpful, minor junk - are universally perceived by civilians as well as other lawyers as less competent. Lawyers who ACT like they are "supposed to" are generally perceived as competent and prepared, even when they are not.

Same deal for umpiring.

Umpires who have been reasonably well trained and who know what they are doing on the field seldom, if ever, do "Look @ ME I'm A Doofus" stuff.

The guys who do such things turn out, much more often than not, to be minimally knowledgeable about rules, mechanics, and game management. They tend, where they do anything at all beyond Ball/Strike/Safe/Out, toward OOO picayune rules enforcement by selective posterior retentiveness. And, now this is key, when told by another umpire "Hey, ditch the BBag and brush on the bases", or other advice: they argue, balk, and sulk about how it "works for {them}", and has "never been a problem" before.

THAT's why we care so much about such "appearances".

[Edited by cbfoulds on Jul 7th, 2005 at 07:16 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 06:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally posted by GarthB
Were you ever in the military? If so, didn't you learn the importance of appearance there? If not, never mind.
No, I don't have a Marine's respect for the importance of appearance, but I have some respect.

In Tee's story, he sees "Smitty" with a ballbag for the bases, assumes he's a "Little League" umpire, and makes him take it off. Then he goes on the field with him, apparently without incident other than an annoying use of the indiclicker.

If removing the ball bag is so easy (it took one comment from Tee), and it immediately trasnforms Smitty into a Real Umpire(tm), why is it such a big deal?

-LL
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 06:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by LilLeaguer
Quote:
Originally posted by GarthB
Were you ever in the military? If so, didn't you learn the importance of appearance there? If not, never mind.
No, I don't have a Marine's respect for the importance of appearance, but I have some respect.

In Tee's story, he sees "Smitty" with a ballbag for the bases, assumes he's a "Little League" umpire, and makes him take it off. Then he goes on the field with him, apparently without incident other than an annoying use of the indiclicker.

If removing the ball bag is so easy (it took one comment from Tee), and it immediately trasnforms Smitty into a Real Umpire(tm), why is it such a big deal?

-LL
Tee's experience was out of the norm. Amputating the ball bag from a Smitty is usually only the beginning.

Additionally, there are well dressed Smitty's. Most of the Smitty's in my area look great, until the first pitch, or first hit, or first play they have to be in position for and call. Not all Smitty's wear the name plate.

Tee wrote an entertaining article about one experience. Don't try to make a universal statement based on it.
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 06:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
Hey,

LL thanks for mentioning the column. Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads my stuff.

A couple of things:

1) Cliff Gustfason (SP) often was quoted when he was head guy at UT: "Yeah, shined shoes, a clean shirt and a razor sharp hem last ONE PITCH when you work for me!"

2) I have often intoned that I don't think it important when talking with umpires if you use interchangably "interference" and "obstruction" . . . I have been taken to task, strongly, by my internet umpire brothers.

3) I think it is silly that I have 47 different umpire shirts.

4) I think that in the upper level of baseball things like dusting off bases, wearing ball bags (or worse yet a fanny pack) and continuing to look at an indiclickercounter when on the bases says something in general about an umpire. It is best to mimick correct things that Big Dogs do so you can really worry about safe/out, ball/strike and fair/foul.

5) I am amazed at those that post things such as:

a) When you are the PU don't look at your indicator. If you do make sure no one notices . . . bu11$hit . . . look as often as you need to.

b) To get "correct timing" I always let the ball hit the catchers glove . . . then I chew my gum twice and THEN call the pitch . . . he11 at my age if I did that I'd FORGET what the pitch was by then.

I am just rying to say that Strikes & Outs is like a trip to your local watering hole to have a cold adult beverage after your game.

I'll tell you how it should be . . . not necessarily how I actually do it.

T
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 07:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally posted by LilLeaguer
I'm actually surprised that there isn't more discussion of Mr. Christensen's articles in the Forum. Perhaps many of the regulars aren't also subscribers. I've found them the bright spot in the Baseball section lately; if I renew my subscription, Tee will have most of the credit for it.

In his latest column, he discusses umpire training and working with those that lack it. As do most of you in the Forum, Tee is quick to notice when an umpire appears out of the ordinary.

I wonder what Tee would do if I showed up to work a game with him on the bases. I wouldn't have a ball bag or a "base brush" (I haven't ever carried these on the bases). No clindicator to give me away, as I haven't used one of those on the bases for 4 years or so. My socks match, my shoes are polished, and my one base hat without insignia is navy blue, matching my pullover. If he looks closely, he might see the unfaded spot on my left shoulder.

But I'll probably be a disaster during the game. My 90' two-man mechanics are pretty rusty, and they were never perfect. (I learned "on-the-job" from a pretty good association trained umpire a few years ago; I can't tell if this counts as training or experience.) Most importantly, I don't know squat about FED rules. Tee will eventually catch me as an imposter. It might be when I miss R1's touch at 2B, or perhaps when I fail to call a "gorilla-arm" balk, but I'll eventually be found out.

So, if things like proper mechanics and rules knowledge are really so important, we do we focus on appearance so much? (I include myself in this, or I wouldn't be able to fool Tee in the parking lot.) Why is it important to kick the dirt off of 2B, if necessary, rather than brush it off?

-LL
If I was working with you I would hope that you would be upfront with me from the get go. With a good pregame I think we could work well together. Normally I don't talk to my partner between innings, but If I were working with you I'd have no problem doing this. Hey we're doing a baseball game and not brain surgery. Get the obvious outs and the obvious safe calls and I'll be a happy guy. The only Fed. Rule that I would discuss with you is the forced play slide rule other than that it's just baseball.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 07:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally posted by cbfoulds
QUOTE]
Several of the earliest "practical" things I learned how to do in my chosen profession have NOTHING to do with how good I am at the actual work: they are all about first impressions and acting like you know what you are doing. Lawyers who do things that they aren't "supposed" to do in court, even harmless, maybe even helpful, minor junk - are universally perceived by civilians as well as other lawyers as less competent. Lawyers who ACT like they are "supposed to" are generally perceived as competent and prepared, even when they are not.

Same deal for umpiring.

Umpires who have been reasonably well trained and who know what they are doing on the field seldom, if ever, do "Look @ ME I'm A Doofus" stuff.

The guys who do such things turn out, much more often than not, to be minimally knowledgeable about rules, mechanics, and game management. They tend, where they do anything at all beyond Ball/Strike/Safe/Out, toward OOO picayune rules enforcement by selective posterior retentiveness. And, now this is key, when told by another umpire "Hey, ditch the BBag and brush on the bases", or other advice: they argue, balk, and sulk about how it "works for {them}", and has "never been a problem" before.

THAT's why we care so much about such "appearances".

[Edited by cbfoulds on Jul 7th, 2005 at 07:16 PM]
If I may summarize some replies, a good appearance:
1) Commands respect
2) Indicates good training
3) Is (apparently) a difficult target for some Smittys.

I understand the first two (though 2 can easily be a false test), but I'm surprised at number 3.

I deal with Little League(tm) umpires at two ends of a spectrum. Before the beginning of the season, I meet with a few dozen (usually coerced) volunteers that may not even know the basic rules of baseball. I have about 8 hours (if they show up at all) to get them ready for their first time officiating a game on their own. I spend about 1/2 an hour on appearance, then move onto the basics of balls/strikes, catch/no-catch, fair/foul, and some very plate and field rudimentary mechanics. I know that if the league can't afford to buy them shirts, they'll be wearing sandals, shorts, and Hawaiian shirts out there. (I saw shin guards over shorts at least once this year. I've learned not to laugh or cry.) There will also be strikes called because the bat wasn't pulled back on an attempted bunt, and though I hope that nobody calls the hands part of the bat, it wouldn't really surprise me. In this case, though, these folks are listening, but I don't have the time to really drive the lessons home. If they get hooked, they'll be back next year, and they'll hear it better. These folks don't have enough experience to be Smittys yet.

At the end of the season the most interested of these umpires gather for the tournaments. Some have just completed their first year of umpiring and are pretty excited; others have been working these tournaments for 20 years. The newer folks are eager to learn, the old hands are willing to teach. I've never seen anybody reject advice, or even the arbitrary direction of the plate umpire. (For example, with random crews put together at 30 minutes before game time, we always need to settle on a rotation: will BUs go out or not. This decision depends on the comfort of the PU, and I've never seen it argued with. We say, "Yes, Boss," and take the field.)

I'm not saying that I've never met Smitty. Heck, I often do a pretty good impersonation myself. But I rarely see an umpire that isn't trying to get better. Maybe it's because there's no pay to attract the real Smittys.

-LL
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 08:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,772
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LilLeaguer
Quote:
Originally posted by cbfoulds

I'm not saying that I've never met Smitty. Heck, I often do a pretty good impersonation myself. But I rarely see an umpire that isn't trying to get better. Maybe it's because there's no pay to attract the real Smittys.

-LL
Oh, there's a lot a them believe me. And they always come out this time of the year for summer ball - the tournaments when there is a shortage of umpires and the assignors will give a game to anyone just to fill a slot.

And most of them aren't trying to get better - they already think that they are GREAT!

Thanks
DAvid
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 09:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
"Were you ever in the military? If so, didn't you learn the importance of appearance there? If not, never mind."


I was.

I was a member of an Honor Guard company where appearance was a top priority.

But in the military, the uniform rules are about dicipline, order, obeying orders, and being part of a whole. It's to say you are not an individual, you are part of a BIG team. The stakes are REAL life and death, not metaphorical life and death.

And, for the life of me, I can't imagine why having, or not having and indiclicker on the bases is even a matter of metaphorical life and death.

And I completely agree with the quote Tee posted:

Cliff Gustfason (SP) often was quoted when he was head guy at UT: "Yeah, shined shoes, a clean shirt and a razor sharp hem last ONE PITCH when you work for me!"

To a coach, it's all about how you perform - just like it is with the players. Ever seen a headline like "Damon Optioned to AAA - Hair too Long" or "Clemens Dropped from Rotation - Beard too Heavy"?

Ever see a manager quoted as saying "The umpires sure looked good today in their new shirts colors"?

We care how you perform. We don't much care how you look.

BTW, the red shirts make you look heavier.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 09:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,643
Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by LilLeaguer
if I renew my subscription, Tee will have most of the credit for it.
Not me.

I can't get enough of the rats and Wiederlanders. Thanks to Widerlanders, I now know the correct way to expalin my calls to the players in my T-Ball games.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 09:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Ives
To a coach, it's all about how you perform - just like it is with the players. Ever seen a headline like "Damon Optioned to AAA - Hair too Long" or "Clemens Dropped from Rotation - Beard too Heavy"?
I am sure that some Pro sports temas have rules about facial hair, and hair length. I would bet the penalty is only a fine.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Ives
We care how you perform. We don't much care how you look.
But the guy who dosen't look good often is the same guy who does not preform good. There is a strong correlation between these two things.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 07, 2005, 10:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
I am sure that some Pro sports temas have rules about facial hair, and hair length. I would bet the penalty is only a fine.

Yes they do.

You missed the point though.



But the guy who dosen't look good often is the same guy who does not preform good (sic). There is a strong correlation between these two things.

Not that I've noticed.

Then again, "temas", "preform", and "good" instead of "well" could also be indicators.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1