Let it go or balk?

[Tim C]

Let's see . . .

Nothing in the rules say that F1 even has to throw the ball to second,

Nothing in the rules says he must make a good throw anywhere,

Nothing in the rules says he must throw to F4 or F6 only.

"Please let me know if I need to think another direction."

You need to think in another direction.

[aevans410]

To expand on what the Coach said, he did throw to a base, he just overshot the fielder. By throwing the ball in the direction of 2nd (even though he doesn't have to throw it at all) he met the requirements he was under in making a legal throw.

Edit : Tee beat me to it, Well said.

[Matthew F]

I'm a little confused also...

I've have been told it's a balk to throw to an unoccupied base. I've also been told that a pick-off throw to the F3, while not holding the runner and making no attempt towards the bag (i.e. F3 is 10'-15' behind the bag, catches the throw and just stands there), that it would be a balk also.

So why wouldn't throwing to an outfielder or infielder playing shallow outfield not be a balk?

EDIT
(got the part about throwing in the vicinity of 2B, but come on... a rainbow to the outfield?!?)

[Carbide Keyman]

THe base was not unoccupied. As far as a throw to first, you must complete the throw or it is a balk. You are not required to throw to second as long as you step towards the base.


EDIT: once he disconnects from the pitching plate, why can't he throw the ball anywhere he pleases ???

[aevans410]

Think about it this way guysWhy would any team throw a "rainbow" to the outfield? Most players could go to the concession stand, get a hot dog and coke, go to the dugout and get a handful of seeds and then get to 3rd base before the throw got there.

There is no balk here, lets not try to make situations that prove each other wrong. There were a few people who know quite a bit about baseball telling you it isn't a balk, lets just leave it that way.

[Matthew F]

Originally posted by aevans410
Think about it this way guysWhy would any team throw a "rainbow" to the outfield? Most players could go to the concession stand, get a hot dog and coke, go to the dugout and get a handful of seeds and then get to 3rd base before the throw got there.

There is no balk here, lets not try to make situations that prove each other wrong. There were a few people who know quite a bit about baseball telling you it isn't a balk, lets just leave it that way.

Because the defense could use this as a trick play...

The pitcher turns to throw towards 2B, F8 is breaking towards 2B, F1 lobs a throw to F8 who catches the ball about 25 feet behind 2B and guns down the runner advancing to 3B.

I understand that if the pitcher disengages the rubber, he can throw anywhere he wants. But if the pitcher is still in contact with the rubber, does a lob to the outfield constitute a balk since the pitcher is obviously not throwing to an occupied base?

And how many times have I heard on this board that umpires should take into account the pitcher's intent?!?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Matthew F

Because the defense could use this as a trick play...

The pitcher turns to throw towards 2B, F8 is breaking towards 2B, F1 lobs a throw to F8 who catches the ball about 25 feet behind 2B and guns down the runner advancing to 3B.

I understand that if the pitcher disengages the rubber, he can throw anywhere he wants. But if the pitcher is still in contact with the rubber, does a lob to the outfield constitute a balk since the pitcher is obviously not throwing to an occupied base?

And how many times have I heard on this board that umpires should take into account the pitcher's intent?!?

Just because it's a "trick play" doesn't mean it's illegal. Since F1 isn't required to throw at all to second, it doesn't matter to where he does throw it (as long as it's more toward secodn than toward third or first).

The rule on throwing to first is different.

[UmpJM]

Originally posted by Matthew F

Because the defense could use this as a trick play...

The pitcher turns to throw towards 2B, F8 is breaking towards 2B, F1 lobs a throw to F8 who catches the ball about 25 feet behind 2B and guns down the runner advancing to 3B.

I understand that if the pitcher disengages the rubber, he can throw anywhere he wants. But if the pitcher is still in contact with the rubber, does a lob to the outfield constitute a balk since the pitcher is obviously not throwing to an occupied base?

And how many times have I heard on this board that umpires should take into account the pitcher's intent?!?

Matthew F.,

By rule, an in contact pitcher is allowed to feint a throw to occupied 2B or 3B (not 1B) as long as he makes a step to the base he is feinting to. He is not required to throw, but, if he chooses to throw, he may throw the ball anywhere he chooses - even while in contact - and it is not a balk!

He may throw it to the centerfielder with the express intent of deceiving the runner that he has made an unintended bad throw, and it is perfectly legal for him to do so.

He has met all the requirements of 8.01 and 8.05, so this is a legal deception of the runner.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by jicecone
[BIf I saw it 100 times in a game, there is no way it is even slightly associated with a balk.
[/B]

100 times? Just how many innings are in a game in your neck of the woods?

[mcrowder]

My fields must be configured wrong. The fields I work don't have any bases in center field at all... so I'm having trouble imagining an unoccupied base out there.

Rule: It is a balk when... "8.05(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play."

Note the actual words used in the rule. It says you cannot throw to an unoccupied base.

From Matthew F: "does a lob to the outfield constitute a balk since the pitcher is obviously not throwing to an occupied base?"

The rule does NOT say you have to throw to an occupied base. There is a difference. You cannot throw to an unoccupied base. A throw (rainbow or bullet or otherwise) to F8 is not a throw to an unoccupied base.

[Edited by mcrowder on Jun 23rd, 2005 at 02:10 PM]

[U_of_I_Blue]

Thanks guys. I think where I and Matthew were getting hung up was the can't throw to an unoccupied base part. In my head, I was taking that to mean, he must throw to an occupied base. MC's statement clears it up really well I think.

-Josh

[mcrowder]

(And just to pre-empt the inevitable question about why throwing to a firstbaseman not near first base is a balk, when throwing to CF not near 2nd base is not...

The rule regarding 1st base is different, and says that if you step toward first base, you must throw toward first base (not the first baseman).

2nd and 3rd do not have that requirement.)

[Matthew F]

How does 8.05(a) pertain (if it does)?

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when-

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery; If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick off play.

[aevans410]

Your also missing the part where the pitcher IS NOT REQUIRED to throw to 2nd base. He can legally feint, he IS NOT REQUIRED to throw to 2nd even if his foot breaks the back plane of the rubber. You happened to find one of the many contradictions in OBR.

[Matthew F]

Yes, that is covered by another rule and the pitcher is allowed to feint to second base.

So now we have...

If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when-

If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw (or feint, since that is allowed by rule) to second base on a pick off play.