The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 02:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to akalsey Send a message via Yahoo to akalsey
After last night's game I'm considering subscribing to the frequent ejection theory of game management. The two teams (12YO OBR) were in first and second place, and a win by the first place team clinched the championship, so everyone was a little tense.

One coach knew exactly where the line was and leaned on it the whole game. After he asked me why a bounding ball down the third base line was called fair, I told him that it bounded over the bag. He said it didn't. I asked him if he was questioning a judgement call and he turned and headed back to the dugout and loudly (and sarcastically) proclaimed "Of course not. Yoru judgement is astute." Had I dumped him at taht point, I would have been seen as the agressor since he was walking away. Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team. I told him that he wasn't to open his mouth the rest of the game.

The moment the final out was recorded, a different coach on the same team shouted "Thanks Blue for the worst umpired game we've had all year." I turned and dumped him. The coach who had been pushing it the whole game yelled "you can't do that, the game's over." So I tossed him too.

I feel like I let too much go early in the game because the individual offenses were relatively minor and because I was concerned with appearing to be the aggressor. The problem is that each of these small things built up and eventually caused problems.

I see coaches like little children. They like to see how much they can get away with and the more you give, the more they take.

In general I feel like I let too much slide. I don't want to become a complete harda** but I need to tighten up the game a little. Any suggestions for this? Would taking HHH's "hang 'em high" approach for a few games help out, or should I do something else?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 03:56pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
After he asked me why a bounding ball down the third base line was called fair, I told him that it bounded over the bag. He said it didn't.

Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team.

The moment the final out was recorded, a different coach on the same team shouted "Thanks Blue for the worst umpired game we've had all year." I turned and dumped him. The coach who had been pushing it the whole game yelled "you can't do that, the game's over." So I tossed him too.

I feel like I let too much go early in the game because the individual offenses were relatively minor and because I was concerned with appearing to be the aggressor. The problem is that each of these small things built up and eventually caused problems.

I don't eject too often but I subscribe to quick ejections for comments that are personal, profane, or prolonged. When he said "it didn't" in the first case I would have replied "we disagree" and not leave him anything more to comment about. When he made the "tilted judgement" comment I would have asked him if he is questioning my integrity. I want him to say "yes" so I can dump him. After the game it has to be personal or profane, because there is no prolonged, because I'm gone.

You don't say much about other incidents but there must have been some for you to feel you let too much go early in the game. Begin early by giving hard stares at anyone who makes a smart crack. If it continues, at some point you have to feel like you have taken all you are going to, call time and let the coaching staff know you are not going to take any more. Get out your game notebook and write it down.

You must understand that a coaches of 12 year old teams playing for a league championship are going to be uptight. They are probably also playing to see who will be the all star coach, and often have a son playing. They are, by definition, uptight. But keep them on a leash - and call anything close a strike.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 04:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
After last night's game I'm considering subscribing to the frequent ejection theory of game management. The two teams (12YO OBR) were in first and second place, and a win by the first place team clinched the championship, so everyone was a little tense.

One coach knew exactly where the line was and leaned on it the whole game. After he asked me why a bounding ball down the third base line was called fair, I told him that it bounded over the bag. He said it didn't. I asked him if he was questioning a judgement call and he turned and headed back to the dugout and loudly (and sarcastically) proclaimed "Of course not. Yoru judgement is astute." Had I dumped him at taht point, I would have been seen as the agressor since he was walking away. Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team. I told him that he wasn't to open his mouth the rest of the game.

The moment the final out was recorded, a different coach on the same team shouted "Thanks Blue for the worst umpired game we've had all year." I turned and dumped him. The coach who had been pushing it the whole game yelled "you can't do that, the game's over." So I tossed him too.

I feel like I let too much go early in the game because the individual offenses were relatively minor and because I was concerned with appearing to be the aggressor. The problem is that each of these small things built up and eventually caused problems.

I see coaches like little children. They like to see how much they can get away with and the more you give, the more they take.

In general I feel like I let too much slide. I don't want to become a complete harda** but I need to tighten up the game a little. Any suggestions for this? Would taking HHH's "hang 'em high" approach for a few games help out, or should I do something else?
Did you take too much? Yep.

No need to ask him if he was attacking your integrity. He did and given the earlier issues, should have been gone then.

__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 04:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to akalsey Send a message via Yahoo to akalsey
Garth, how do you eject someone who's walking away, making quiet barbs out of earshot of everyone else, and generally being a model citizen in public while jabbing daggers at you in private? I don't want to look like the agressor or like I'm tossing someone just for the heck of it.

I'm not saying it can't be done or that you shouldn't, but I'm looing for some concrete methods for doing it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 05:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
When he accused you of cheating, you said he was stopped and speaking quietly, but no matter. Even if he was walking away, toss his ignorant, classless but.

You don't want to look aggressive? Fine. You don't have to use the "big finger" toss.

"Excuse me, coach? You're done for today. You need to leave the field and facilities now."...all said in a calm manner and normal tone of voice. If he gets excited and turns on you, who is the agressor?

Don't make excuses to keep a coach who has decided he wants to leave the game. When you do, you just make matters worse for the next umpire.


[Edited by GarthB on May 28th, 2005 at 06:37 PM]
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 05:09pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,095
I would have asked him this question directly. "Are you questioning my integrity?" If his answer is yes, then I have no problem with an ejection. If he pauses and then apologizes, then he gets the message. I do not subscribe to the eject quick and often group. I think you should try to keep any HS and below level (head) coach in a game. I do not think it looks like you are the aggressor or not. I do think if things were going on for several innings, you need to do something early to stop it. Just like the coach approached you, you can approach the coach in passing as well. If the coach gets upset, walk away. If he follows you, then he just hung himself.

Also, youth coaches do not ever have a clue. They do not realize or have much knowledge what is acceptable. You have to draw the line in the sand and if they cross it that is their problem.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 05:09pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
Garth, how do you eject someone who's walking away, making quiet barbs out of earshot of everyone else, and generally being a model citizen in public while jabbing daggers at you in private? I don't want to look like the agressor or like I'm tossing someone just for the heck of it.

I'm not saying it can't be done or that you shouldn't, but I'm looing for some concrete methods for doing it.
Why does it really matter how quietly he craps on you? And who are you worrying about when it comes to explaining why you dumped him? The crowd?

He crapped on you big time. He very directly questioned your integrity.

Twice.

You stood there and meekly took it.

Twice.

It's your choice. No one else's.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 05:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 446
Question

My question is why dump the coaches after the game was over. I understand that you still have field jurisdiction and that post-game, off the field penalties such as suspensions probably follow (and IMO, they deserved them). However, like MTD, Sr. says on the basketball board, get in, get out, get done. You were worried about feeling like a harda** to everyone, so what do you think tossing them after the game was over looked like. Unless it was just completely out of hand with the coaches, just get off the field. Then, you report the situation to your supervisor and/or league officials, and if they have any sense, they will suspend the coaches anyway.

Also, IMO, Garth's way of tossing the coach w/ the soft comment is perfect. Just look at him right back in the eye and w/ the same tone of voice throw him. Guaranteed he'll spaz, and then you don't look like the bad guy.
__________________
I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 07:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to akalsey Send a message via Yahoo to akalsey
Quote:
My question is why dump the coaches after the game was over. ... Get in, get out, get done.
The ejection after the game came within 15 seconds of the final out. I called the out at second base from the area behind the mound (I was by myself so I had hustled out there) and had taken 4-5 steps toward the gate when he shouted across the field. Absolutely no way I'm going to let an adult teach kids that those actions were acceptable. So I tossed him. An after-the-fact suspension by league officials wasn't going to demonstrate to them that these guys were wrong. And yes, there's a mandatory one game suspension following an ejection and the coaches will likely see further penalties as well.

Quote:
And who are you worrying about when it comes to explaining why you dumped him? The crowd?
I'm worried about game management. Tensions are already high, tossing the coach who's behind by 6 runs for a reason that's apparent to only he and I would cause an uproar from the crowd and the bench and is only going to increase tensions further.

I like the idea of a quiet ejection. The coach is sticking it too me quietly so no one else can hear, so I send him packing in exactly the same way. That's the type of advice I needed. I already knew the coach should have been tossed earlier, I just didn't have the right method with which to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 10:03pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I think you should try to keep any HS and below level (head) coach in a game.
Peace
Why treat a head coach above HS level differently?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 28, 2005, 10:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I think you should try to keep any HS and below level (head) coach in a game.
Why are you trying to keep below HS coaches in the game? Coaches at the Rec legaue level are just the first dad on the team who came forward and said he if off work by 5:00. They know very little about how to conduct themselves on a baseball field, and therefore they don't know what not to do.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 29, 2005, 12:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,772
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team.
You wanted to know where you messed up? This is the place.

Never ever allow a coach to call you a "homer".

Basically you let him call you a cheat and you did nothing -so from that point on you got what you deserved. (no respect)

If its a practice game, the first game of the season, a game between the two worst teams, or a champsionship game a coach is NEVER allowed to tell me I'm cheating and get away with it. That is an automatic ejection.

You don't have to make a big deal out of it. Since he was walking by all you had to do was say, coach you're coming with me and escort him from the facility.

Some of the best ejections are the ones that no ones knows have happened.

Thanks
David
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 29, 2005, 12:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
After last night's game I'm considering subscribing to the frequent ejection theory of game management. The two teams (12YO OBR) were in first and second place, and a win by the first place team clinched the championship, so everyone was a little tense.

One coach knew exactly where the line was and leaned on it the whole game. After he asked me why a bounding ball down the third base line was called fair, I told him that it bounded over the bag. He said it didn't. I asked him if he was questioning a judgement call and he turned and headed back to the dugout and loudly (and sarcastically) proclaimed "Of course not. Yoru judgement is astute." Had I dumped him at taht point, I would have been seen as the agressor since he was walking away. Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team. I told him that he wasn't to open his mouth the rest of the game.

The moment the final out was recorded, a different coach on the same team shouted "Thanks Blue for the worst umpired game we've had all year." I turned and dumped him. The coach who had been pushing it the whole game yelled "you can't do that, the game's over." So I tossed him too.

I feel like I let too much go early in the game because the individual offenses were relatively minor and because I was concerned with appearing to be the aggressor. The problem is that each of these small things built up and eventually caused problems.

I see coaches like little children. They like to see how much they can get away with and the more you give, the more they take.

In general I feel like I let too much slide. I don't want to become a complete harda** but I need to tighten up the game a little. Any suggestions for this? Would taking HHH's "hang 'em high" approach for a few games help out, or should I do something else?
"Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team."

That's an invite to the parking lot. That's an attack on your integrity. He accused you of cheating. "Who's your assistant coach, because you are no longer a participant in this game".

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 29, 2005, 01:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 768
Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I think you should try to keep any HS and below level (head) coach in a game.
Peace
Why treat a head coach above HS level differently?
Oh, come on. Everyone knows what he meant.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 29, 2005, 02:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 842
Send a message via AIM to cowbyfan1 Send a message via Yahoo to cowbyfan1
Another thing you can do if he is walking away from you is, with you back to the crowd, tell him that he is history but just say it loud enough that only he can hear it. When he turns around to come back at you, then dump him for the crowd to see. Makes him look like the agressor, just what you were looking for. This probably won't work with a good experienced coach and you don't want to use unless it is truely deserved.
__________________
Jim

Need an out, get an out. Need a run, balk it in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1