Eject early and often?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DG

Why treat a head coach above HS level differently?

Many HS coaches and below are not as familiar with the protocol of what might get them ejected or not. It is not their full time job, like a college or pro coach has coaching their baseball team.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by akalsey
After last night's game I'm considering subscribing to the frequent ejection theory of game management. The two teams (12YO OBR) were in first and second place, and a win by the first place team clinched the championship, so everyone was a little tense.

One coach knew exactly where the line was and leaned on it the whole game. After he asked me why a bounding ball down the third base line was called fair, I told him that it bounded over the bag. He said it didn't. I asked him if he was questioning a judgement call and he turned and headed back to the dugout and loudly (and sarcastically) proclaimed "Of course not. Yoru judgement is astute." Had I dumped him at taht point, I would have been seen as the agressor since he was walking away. Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team. I told him that he wasn't to open his mouth the rest of the game.

The moment the final out was recorded, a different coach on the same team shouted "Thanks Blue for the worst umpired game we've had all year." I turned and dumped him. The coach who had been pushing it the whole game yelled "you can't do that, the game's over." So I tossed him too.

I feel like I let too much go early in the game because the individual offenses were relatively minor and because I was concerned with appearing to be the aggressor. The problem is that each of these small things built up and eventually caused problems.

I see coaches like little children. They like to see how much they can get away with and the more you give, the more they take.

In general I feel like I let too much slide. I don't want to become a complete harda** but I need to tighten up the game a little. Any suggestions for this? Would taking HHH's "hang 'em high" approach for a few games help out, or should I do something else?

You should have run him at least twice. When he said you r judgment was tilted toward the other team, there's no other response possible but ejection. Once you didn't eject him, he knew he could get away with anything. What good does a post-game ejection do in this situation?

[Rich]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Many HS coaches and below are not as familiar with the protocol of what might get them ejected or not. It is not their full time job, like a college or pro coach has coaching their baseball team.

Peace

I don't try to keep anyone in a game. Either the coach behaves appropriately or he doesn't. It's no skin off my back if he gets run for being stupid and perhaps next time he will think twice for being an idiot.

I've run one manager/head coach in three years and this idiot managed to get ejected in both halves of a DH. By two different umpires.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


I don't try to keep anyone in a game. Either the coach behaves appropriately or he doesn't. It's no skin off my back if he gets run for being stupid and perhaps next time he will think twice for being an idiot.

I've run one manager/head coach in three years and this idiot managed to get ejected in both halves of a DH. By two different umpires.

I got rid of two assistant coaches this year. That was the most coach ejections in one season I have had in probably 8 years. It does not bother me either way. I just think we cannot be so rigged with youth coaches and use a philosophy that applies to pro ball and other high levels of ball. If you have to eject someone, get rid of them. After all this is all a personal decision.

Peace

[LMan]

they fuss about the call a bit, OK. When you hear a personal remark about your judgment, integrity, etc., they are gone. When it goes from "that call wasnt..." to "your judgement...or you..." thats a line. You take that and you are a pinata the rest of the game.

[tjones1]

Sounds like the problem is that they only hired one umpire. Why?!?! If this is such an important game, why do they only have one umpire??

As everyone else has said, he would have been launched whenever he questioned my integrity. I only had two ejections this year (1 player, 1 coach) and the coach was launched for just that -- questioning my integrity.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by tjones1
Sounds like the problem is that they only hired one umpire. Why?!?! If this is such an important game, why do they only have one umpire??

Tanner,

Do they hire only one umpire where you live? They did not do that where I started umpiring. I almost never worked a game by myself when I started or when I would work lower level games. I just wanted to know if they are doing that in other parts of Illinois. They accept seemed to only assign one umpire to lower level games up here. I just wanted to know if that was the case in other parts of our state.

Peace

[tjones1]

Jeff,

Nope, even down (dare I say) in Little League, they hire two umpires. H*ll even in minor they have two umpires. Now I understand that it might be difficult to get umpires to work 12 year old games during regular season, but this was a championship game. I'm not trying to knock on akalsey, I'm sure he did a fine job pulling double duties.

The only way you might see one umpire on the field (not counting if one doesn't show up) is if by some chance after the Varsity game they brought there JV team and forgot to tell the officials. Now, probably 95% of the time there isn't a problem, the officials are more than happy to stay and work maybe a 4 inning game, however sometimes they already have plans therefore can't work it. Thus, only one umpire works the game.

I'm in the same boat as you JRut, I've been luckly enough so far to not have to work anywhere they hire only 1 official or not have one show up. (Knock on wood)

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by akalsey

The two teams (12YO OBR) were in first and second place,

Here-in lies problem number 1. Generally speaking coaches at this level are out of control and no-one puts a stop to it.

You can bet that this coach did not display such antics for the FIRST time. He probably has been doing similar things throughout the year and the BOD or President of the League has done nothing about it.


Later as he passed me to give his batter some instruction between innings he stopped to very quietly tell me that it appears to him and his team that my judgement was tilted in favor of the other team.

Generally speaking I do not pay much attention to coaches comments UNLESS they make it personal. I give the coaches the respect they deserve and I expect the same in return.

It's one thing for a coach to say "Common Blue your killing us" and that's it versus a coach calling me a cheater.

Once he acused you of cheating he should have been Dumped in a heartbeat.

Pete Booth

[akalsey]

Once he acused you of cheating he should have been Dumped in a heartbeat. (and other similar comments)

Agreed. As I stated at the beginning of the thread, I know I should have dumped him. What I was struggling with was exactly how to do so. It's obvious that this coach has perfected the art of playing the umpire.

I've gotten many fantastic suggestions about how to dump someone who's acting in this manner. Thanks for all the help.

Sounds like the problem is that they only hired one umpire. Why?!?! If this is such an important game, why do they only have one umpire??

Hired? What's that? I was volunteering my time, as I do for much of the youth ball season. I don't need the money, and I think the kids need a good umpire.

[tjones1]

I never said you needed the money/do it for the money but it is cool you are giving your time up for it!

[aevans410]

Lets keep one more thing in perspective guys. I don't know how it is around your areas, but the LL umpires associations around this area usually carries 2-3 high school or higher level umpires (if that) and the rest are high school aged or just graduated high school kids. The coaches are used to walking over umpires. While they don't necessarily know the limits, they could be 5-6 games into a season before an umpire shows them what the limits are.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by akalsey

Hired? What's that? I was volunteering my time, as I do for much of the youth ball season. I don't need the money, and I think the kids need a good umpire. [/B]

Unless it's for a charitable cause you shouldn't work for free. Home town discounts (I've done that)are OK. My view is this. I've spent money on clinics, books, equipment etc., etc. While I don't do this for a living my time has value as does yours and I should be compensated for my time. I'm all for giving back and I've seved as a board member for two baseball associations and as a Coach for over 10 years unpaid of course and I was happy to do it. One of the reasons you have trouble with Coaches is because your Umpires are (I'm assuming this is the case) unpaid volunteers. I respect the fact that you are giving back to the community but you should be paid for your time. Just my opinion.

[mcrowder]

I see nothing wrong with dumping that coach after the game... at least the first one. "Hey, you can't do that!" probably doesn't warrant an ejection on the 2nd coach, even if that was yet another straw on this guy's back. I think after the 1 ejection, all I'd have done to "Hey, you can't do that," would be to say, "Yet again, you are wrong coach," and walk away. If he keeps it up, toss him too.

But --- a big but ---- you set up this situation by letting HC get away with way too much.

[mattmets]

On the topic of personal attacks, a few times this year I've had coaches say "you cost us that one, blue" or "thats three, blue"....i've had doubts about whether i should dump them, but i've decided against it because they've simmered down as the game goes on. i'm 18, and this is my first full summer working games. i'm trying not to have a reputation as a hothead, but these coaches need to learn they can't walk on me. what would you advise me to do in the situation i said with what the coaches said to me? am i right for saving them, or is it put up or shut up time for me to make this decision? thanks a lot for any help.