Did I Do Right?

[dddunn3d]

FED rules, R3(I'm in 'C'). B1 squares to bunt, R3 starts towards home. B1 misses the bunt and F2 fires down to F5. R3, F5 and the ball all get to the same point in space at the same time. The problem is

• it's a dry, dusty field
• the wind is blowing about 10KTS directly from the west, and
• the setting sun is directly behind 3B in my line-of-sight.

These factors combine to totally and completely obscure my view of the play. I set, look, and... see nothing but dust and glare. I come up, point to my partner who has come up the line a few steps, and say "I was completely obstructed, what do you have?" He said "Runner was safe." So I signal safe.

Is this an appropriate technique(and mechanic) to use in this type of situation? I ask because I've always heard to get your own calls.

[akalsey]

The other option is to call safe immediately because you didn't see a tag and let the coaches come out and discuss the call with you.

Announcing to all the world that I didn't see the play is about the last thing I'd want to do. I'd worry that the coaches, players, and fans would start second-guessing every call.

[dddunn3d]

I didn't say I didn't see the play, I said that my view of the play was obstructed by the unique environmental conditions present at that time. Because of this, I felt I could not offer an informed judgement of the play's outcome. If, for example, I had been looking at F6, RF, etc., then said 'Sorry, I didn't see it,' your concerns about second-guessing would be valid. However, since I was right where I was supposed to be, your point is moot.

Besides, the last thing I want is to put myself in a position that invites any coach to come out and discuss my call. (It's just my luck that if I would have called safe without being sure, R3 would have fell down two feet short of the bag.) As it was, neither side said anything at all.

[mbyron]

You didn't see the tag, but it's still your call. Your "call," not your "informed judgment." What if you'd been the only umpire? You'd have made the best of it, right?

I understand your desire to get the call right - that's fine, as far as it goes.

but akalsey is giving you good advice. Make the best call that you can. If you're asked to get help, presumably you won't have a problem since your view was obstructed. I just don't think that's where your call should START.

The other thing to remember is: it sounds as if NOBODY could see this play. You were in position and were on top of the play. Who's going to argue with you?

Sometimes, you just gotta umpire.

And, of course, it's just one call in one game in one season. Of course you want to get it right, but baseball will live even if you miss a banger.

[tmp44]

dddunn,

Take this example: I'm PU working a FED Varsity game about a month ago. R3, and BR hit a shot right down the 3rd base line. R3, in his infinite wisdom, decides to run on the fair side of the baseline and TOTALLY obstructs my view of the ball. I don't pick up the ball until I see it about 10 feet in FOUL territory on the other side of the bag. I come up and sell FOUL BALL! Both 1st and 3rd base coaches go ballistic--the ball had bounced about 5 feet fair and took a crazy hop into foul...but again, I never saw the ball until it had basically made, what I thought, was the first touch in foul territory. Yea, I got it wrong, but like mbyron said, sometimes you just gotta umpire.

[Macaroo]

If your partner was in good position/angle (seems he was), I think you did it the right way. Much better than the big discussion/possible change of decision after you make a (wrong) call. IMO. This is a unique occurance with the sun, etc. and not likely to be your usual mechanic. Getting his help is better than a guess.

[orioles35]

This past weekend, 2 man crew. My first games of the year as I'm only working on an "as needed" basis this season (as in "I need the money, give me a few games").

R1 and R2, pitcher in the stretch and R2 breaks early. Now of course the pitcher could have very well threw to the plate from there, or even made an attempt at R1. In either case I have to hold my ground, behind the mound.

Pitcher makes a play to 3rd to get R2, R2 slides around the backside of the base and the 3rd baseman applies the tag there, amongst a cloud of dust that totally obscures my view. What did I see? Ball beat runner, 3rd baseman applied the tag while R2 still appeared to be sliding/reaching for 3rd base. I rang him up and got a few polite comments from the 3rd base coach, the only one of which that bothered me was "get into position to make the call", as though I had even a chance to move at ALL during that play, not that it would have helped (we need rain badly around here).

In my case, I probably did kick the call but how would I know? That's one of the many downfalls of a two-man crew.
The 3rd base coach had the best view of the play, certainly better than I did. Make the call, live with it. That's your job.

I'm just glad I got paid for two no-shows on Sunday, enabling me to save my legs for hockey that night!

[dddunn3d]

Everyone is making fine points here, that's why I brought this sitch here first. I have found that the level of expertise and experience at this site is first-class.

By the way, please don't think I'm just being argumentative by appearing to disregard your responses. When I post a question to this site I'm usually looking for answers that prompt me to defend my position. If I can, then I will; if not, I say thanks for setting me straight. With that in mind...

mbyron--

I appreciate your reply. However, as a matter of fact, only those persons east of the 3B foul-line(e.g., me) had obstructed views; those west of the line(e.g., PU, 3B coach, defensive dugout) could see the play clearly.

What is an umpire's "call" if not his "informed judgement?" Let's say Ol' Smitty is working the bases in my sitch. The play develops and he is busy behind the mound adjusting his indi-clicker, head down on his chest. Oblivious to this point, he looks up when he hears the commotion at 3B. He cannot possibly make a "call." At best he will make a guess. And when he does guess, correctly or not, his ability to umpire will be in doubt. As wards of the game, we most definitely cannot let our "calls" become "guesses." Rather, they must always be "informed judgements."

We, as umpires, know this almost instinctively. That's why we study the rules of the game, attend clinics, and develop systems of mechanics so that the best possible information is available to an umpire every play. You might think that in this unique instance our methods were lacking. Not so. I saw where my partner had placed himself(mechanics) so that his view of the play was unobstructed. I availed myself of his information, and then made my call(informed judgement).

One more point: you said that it's just one call in one game in one season. That's true. But it's important to remember that every pitch, every play, every game means something to someone. In a 10U game, one may take the position Hey, they're just kids playing, it doesn't matter who wins or loses. While this sentiment may be true from the blue's perspective, try telling that to those kids. As it turns out, this game, even though it was JV, had been designated a conference game, meaningful in the standings, and giving the opportunity to those players to contribute to their schools. I have never seen a game played with more intensity than this one. The quality of play was lacking, but I could see the pride in those kids' faces.

tmp44--

Your example is not quite the same. Whereas you first saw the ball foul, I never saw the ball at all. In your sitch you used what information was available and made a call; same with me, it's just that I had to pry what information was available out of my partner.

orioles35--

Same as above. You said that you saw the ball beat R2 to the bag, you saw F5 apply the tag, you saw that R2 was still sliding. You made a call using the available information. I saw nothing, no ball, no glove, no R3 torso/arm.

Later in my game, R2 stealing. F5 covers, F2 makes a beauty of a throw. Again that dust cloud rises. But I had learned from the previous play, and hustled my butt to where I was above the cloud and could see the play at 3B develop. Although close, easy call: R2 out.

From your userid I take it that you're an O's fan. How's Sosa working out for you?

[mcrowder]

I think what they(we) are trying to tell you is that you need to make some sort of call here. This exact situation is unique in that it is likely that your partners are looking in your direction. But they won't always be. What if, for some reason, no one else was looking in the right direction. You don't KNOW what they were looking at, since your eyes were on the cloud of dust. Since this is YOUR call - you need to make it. And then (since you know you didn't see the whole play) be completely willing to discuss with your partners when asked. Worst thing that could have happened here - you make no call, announce you saw nothing, and for some reason your partners also have nothing to add.

It's also unique in that play is essentially relaxed after the call you need to make ... but it won't always be. What happens on this exact play if you try to ask partner for help, but other things are happening. You make no call, and then F5 fires to 2nd base for a play there. Can R1 run? Should F4 throw home to get him? No one knows - you didn't make a call.

In short (I know --- too late!), I think it's pretty much unanimous here from your umpiring brethren --- MAKE A CALL. You can always sort it out and fix it afterwards if necessary. But MAKE A CALL. In this case - you didn't see a tag. So the call is SAFE. You have to SEE an out to call an out.

[orioles35]

With the cloud of dust, I didn't actually SEE all that but I know they happened underneath all the dirt. The timing was there for an out, that's why I called it. I never saw the ball touch the runner, or the runner touch the bag. I could just as easily called him safe, but based on what I DID SEE, I rang him up. I hustle ALL the time on the field, sprint to the middle on a sure double to cover the bag there, I even run to the position behind the mound after a walk (not sprint..that's just silly). But on this call there was no time to do that. Funny, stuff like this would have ate me up when I got started, now it's not that big of a deal any more...even though I could have kicked it.

Is Sosa #35 now? I picked up this moniker back when Mussina was with the team and stuck with it for all the multitude of logins on the internet.

Didn't want to become Yankees35...ugh.

[dddunn3d]

Excellent! You have set me straight. This is why I enjoy this forum; those more experienced than I can share their fortunes/misfortunes from the ball field. Since I have a scientific background(Chemistry degree, etc.) I tend to apply those kind of problem solving techniques. But as is obvious to me now, that doesn't always lead to correct results as an umpire. Learning all the time....

Sosa is #21, Cabrera is #35 now.

BTW I'm a life-long Cardinals fan.

[Edited by dddunn3d on May 17th, 2005 at 04:40 PM]

[mbyron]

Originally posted by dddunn3d
But it's important to remember that every pitch, every play, every game means something to someone.

Yes: and I recommend taking that attitude BEFORE each call. My remark about letting it go applies AFTER you've made the call.

That's a weird thing about umpiring: we invest each call with great significance and focus our attention intently on it; then we have to let it go and move on to the next call, so that we get that one perfect, too.

[scyguy]

ddd,
I am a big cards fan also, you live in MO?

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I think what they(we) are trying to tell you is that you need to make some sort of call here. This exact situation is unique in that it is likely that your partners are looking in your direction. But they won't always be. What if, for some reason, no one else was looking in the right direction. You don't KNOW what they were looking at, since your eyes were on the cloud of dust. Since this is YOUR call - you need to make it. And then (since you know you didn't see the whole play) be completely willing to discuss with your partners when asked. Worst thing that could have happened here - you make no call, announce you saw nothing, and for some reason your partners also have nothing to add.

It's also unique in that play is essentially relaxed after the call you need to make ... but it won't always be. What happens on this exact play if you try to ask partner for help, but other things are happening. You make no call, and then F5 fires to 2nd base for a play there. Can R1 run? Should F4 throw home to get him? No one knows - you didn't make a call.

In short (I know --- too late!), I think it's pretty much unanimous here from your umpiring brethren --- MAKE A CALL. You can always sort it out and fix it afterwards if necessary. But MAKE A CALL. In this case - you didn't see a tag. So the call is SAFE. You have to SEE an out to call an out.

I agree you have to make some call here then if need be go to your partner. I had a play, R1, R2, 1 out. Ground ball to 3rd. Player comes up with it and starts to throw to 2nd for the front end of a DP. I see this and I start to move across the working area to make the call at 2nd and then at first. Last second he pulls the ball down and goes to try and tag R2. I get straight lined and the runner tries to avoid and I cannot tell if tag happened or not. I signal safe as I did not see a tag. Play ends and the defensive coach is already starting to come out. I told him to relax and I checked with my partner to see if he had a tag as he was at a better angle, albeit down by home. He said he that there was a tag and I changed the call to an out.
In your play I don't care for a partner check on that player going back into 3rd base as all he is going to see is A's and E's (hopefully you know what that is) and he will have no angle on this play at all. Make your call and live with it. Sometimes setting up a step or 2 from your nornal spot will help in that "sunset" situation. For example I have called on a field where the sun setting is right behind the hitters when I am in A and you can see nothing. The fix? Move to B. Now I can see and be of some use to my partner is needed.

[dddunn3d]

South 'burbs of Chicago.

You can imagine....