Coach Bringing Ball onto Field During a Conf

[officialtony]

Originally posted by JRutledge


There is no rule that allows active players to throw the ball around during a conference. . .
Peace [/B]

There is no rule that disallows it either, yet you choose to ignore the rules presented to you because they don't " exactly " fit your case.

Why do you let the defensive players talk to each other away from the mound? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
Why do you allow the offensive players to talk to each other during a defensive conference? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
Why do you let players sit down on the field or bases during a conference? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
All of these things are as silly as you not letting a couple of guys throw a ball around.

As far as others not being on the website talking about it, this was beat to death in another post and everybody finally said enough is enough - and I learned a lesson. Be flexible and learn to adjust to the spirit of the game - not your spirit.
I'm done.
Hope I don't have to EVER work with one like you.
I need flexibility in a partner.

[Edited by officialtony on Apr 20th, 2005 at 10:40 AM]

[David B]

Originally posted by JRutledge
It sounds like to me David, you are just adding stuff to the discussion because someone does not agree with you. I have never said this is what everyone has to do. I have made it clear that this is how I would handle the situation. Actually, I couldn't care less what others do as it relates to this rule (or non-rule). I know what I am going to do. I have also never seen a coach try this. It is like worrying about whether a player corks an aluminum bat. Until it happens, I am not going to worry about it. When it happens, I have a pretty good idea what I am going to say or do about it. I know others that feel the same way or would not allow this to happen. They just are not on a website talking about it.

Peace

I should know better than to try to make a point with you because you always respond with the same comments.

If you had read the discussion I only added my points after reading your rediculous argument, and then after Tee pointed out that you should rethink it, you go to the same old song and dance routine about you know what you would do and that's all that matters.

Then my point is "don't post it on the forum so others won't think that what the book says."

I was simply pointing out that your "what I would do" does not match with either the rule book or the case book.

Then I went on to point out that there are rules that you "should" be doing, but you don't.

Now before you go to the 2nd stanza, of how do I know what you do, I've never seen you work a game, just believe me I've been doing baseball long enough to know.

So I was just trying to get you to think a little bit but to no avail. Have a nice season.

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by officialtony


There is no rule that disallows it either, yet you choose to ignore the rules presented to you because they don't " exactly " fit your case.

Why do you let the defensive players talk to each other away from the mound? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
Why do you allow the offensive players to talk to each other during a defensive conference? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
Why do you let players sit down on the field or bases during a conference? It doesn't allow that in 3-4-1.
All of these things are as silly as you not letting a couple of guys throw a ball around.

Just as I thought from the very beginning. You find someone that disagrees with your application on one rule. Then you turn this discussion into other unrelated issues that we are not discussing.

Originally posted by officialtony
As far as others not being on the website talking about it, this was beat to death in another post and everybody finally said enough is enough - and I learned a lesson. Be flexible and learn to adjust to the spirit of the game - not your spirit.
I'm done.
Hope I don't have to EVER work with one like you.
I need flexibility in a partner.

I work 3 sports Tony. I have worked with all kinds of people in my career. I have worked from everyone like the rules guy that read something in the casebook and has to apply it to the letter or the wording, to the guy that could not care one bit what the latest ruling is. I even worked with a guy recently that never heard of the "V" in his 30 years of umpiring. This person was the plate umpire and wanted to take all fly balls, all the time. I am much more flexible then you will ever know.

Having said that, you will never have to worry about us working together, it is not going to happen anyway.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by David B
I should know better than to try to make a point with you because you always respond with the same comments.

If you had read the discussion I only added my points after reading your rediculous argument, and then after Tee pointed out that you should rethink it, you go to the same old song and dance routine about you know what you would do and that's all that matters.

Then my point is "don't post it on the forum so others won't think that what the book says."

I was simply pointing out that your "what I would do" does not match with either the rule book or the case book.

Then I went on to point out that there are rules that you "should" be doing, but you don't.

Now before you go to the 2nd stanza, of how do I know what you do, I've never seen you work a game, just believe me I've been doing baseball long enough to know.

So I was just trying to get you to think a little bit but to no avail. Have a nice season.

Thanks
David

With all due respect, who the hell are you? You are at the very least just another umpire like me. You are no one special to me. No one I run with references you and your opinions on a daily basis. Even if you were an Major League Umpire, it is clear there are people here that have little or no respect for those individuals either. If we have people that can rip every "big time official" that has accomplished 10 times more than most here, then why should I listen to you over my years of working and accomplishing things in a sport which is a distant 3rd in my radar of wanting to be successful?

I must have missed the memo that made you God of all philosophies and opinions on rule applications.

Peace

[LMan]

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue

3.3.1 in the case book. fed rules.
situation P: during a charged conference, the coach or other bench prsonnel A)hits or B) throws fly balls to a substitute outfielder, Ruling illegal in a) and legal in B)

TO me that sounds like you can throw the ball around.

Well, there you have it! They can throw the ball around as long as the coach doesn't change the pitcher!

[scyguy]

Wow JRut was that fun? Sometimes discussions can progress into a war of words. You would not think that it would happen on a forum specially designed for animals of the same color, but we do resort to clawing one another. I guess it is the nature of the beast.

By the way, I don't agree with you on this issue, but I respect your willingness to try and express it.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by scyguy
Wow JRut was that fun? Sometimes discussions can progress into a war of words. You would not think that it would happen on a forum specially designed for animals of the same color, but we do resort to clawing one another. I guess it is the nature of the beast.

By the way, I don't agree with you on this issue, but I respect your willingness to try and express it.

I cannot find many umpires that can agree on many other issues that I would see as much more important to umpiring. Why would I expect agreement here on a rule or application that I have never seen a coach try?

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by JRutledge

With all due respect, who the hell are you? You are at the very least just another umpire like me. You are no one special to me. No one I run with references you and your opinions on a daily basis. Even if you were an Major League Umpire, it is clear there are people here that have little or no respect for those individuals either. If we have people that can rip every "big time official" that has accomplished 10 times more than most here, then why should I listen to you over my years of working and accomplishing things in a sport which is a distant 3rd in my radar of wanting to be successful?

I must have missed the memo that made you God of all philosophies and opinions on rule applications.

Peace

I am simply an umpire like you; however, I don't think I was attacking your character, just your interpretations.

I have yet to read a rule out of any of your posts except for Rule 10 which is a scapegoat rule for umpires.

Obviously you guys must play a little different brand of baseball than we do as we have coaches switch pitchers all the time and ask if the pitcher going to F6 or F5 can take a few throws.

Just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it is a part of the game on a regular basis.

I hope that my posts did not offend anyone else, but I have a problem with umpires wanting to skirt around the issue and then use Rule 10 to get around the issue.

Thanks
David


[Edited by David B on Apr 20th, 2005 at 02:50 PM]

[mcrowder]

I do too, David. But we've already all admitted here that the rulebook is NOT clear on this, one way or the other. Other than rule 10, what do you use to support your case - regardless of which side of the case you land on. Personally, I'm not on JRut's side on this... but if asked for a rule reference to back up my position, I'm relying on exactly the same rule that he is here.

Questions not covered elsewhere (like this one) are EXACTLY what that rule is in there for.

What I'm baffled by is why, in a case like this that is obviously not supported either way, ANYone feels compelled to bash a fellow blue simply because the bashee would rule differently than the basher.

[scyguy]

it is the way things are done "in this neck of the woods". Get use to it, grow a thick skin and move on. This site is full of great advice and extremely intelligent umpires. Sometimes a tomato in the face is the price you pay to learn how to be a more skilled umpire.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by David B

I am simply an umpire like you; however, I don't think I was attacking your character, just your interpretations.

I have yet to read a rule out of any of your posts except for Rule 10 which is a scapegoat rule for umpires.

Obviously you guys must play a little different brand of baseball than we do as we have coaches switch pitchers all the time and ask if the pitcher going to F6 or F5 can take a few throws.

David,

Stop adding stuff to the discussion. I am not debating every single situation with players warming up. We are not talking about a sub warming up, we are talking about warming up (or what I take away from the question) just as apart of a conference. If that is what is taking place, I am not allowing that. If there is a substitute, that is another issue and I have a different attitude.

Originally posted by David B
Just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it is a part of the game on a regular basis.

I hope that my posts did not offend anyone else, but I have a problem with umpires wanting to skirt around the issue and then use Rule 10 to get around the issue.

Thanks
David

David,

All sports I work have a rule like I references. In my soon to be 10 years of officiating sports, there have been situations that have come up that no rule specifically covers. If something becomes a problem or a trend, the rules committees create rules that cover those situations. You do not have to accept my opinion on this, but if something is not covered specifically by the rules, I and any other umpire has the right and duty to come up with a solution. What if the other coach complains and makes a big deal out of this action? You are going to have to tell the coach something. You have to have some reason for applying your application of this procedure. If you feel warming up is within the bounds of a conference, you better have some justification for backing that up. In my opinion that is what Rule 10-2-3g is for. You sure have not shown me anything other than your own common sense and what you think is right to allow this.

No one is skirting the issue by quoting 10-2-3g; I dealt with it head on. You have a right to no agree with that ruling. I do not have to work with you either. My opinion is just that, an opinion. I cannot get umpires to apply rules that are clearly stated in the book and are applied by everyone but them. This is not a problem where I live, nor is essential umpiring a game. I gave you my take on a very unusual situation and you have done nothing but tell me I am wrong. You have shown no rule to contradict the situation that deals with the specific situation. All are doing is telling me I am wrong. Well that does not work with me. Sorry, it just does not.

Peace