Coach Bringing Ball onto Field During a Conf

[LDUB]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I dont' have last year's book with me, but the current rule states that both players "warming up" must be in the current line-up. 9-4a AR6

I'm looking at the 2004 book, and it also says that both players must be currently in the lineup. And they both have to be in fair territory. So whoever allowed this missed both parts of the rule.

[JRutledge]

officialtony,

You are missing the point. The rule does not permit or allow for warming up to take place during a defensive conference. I guess someone could use your logic and say that we should allow hitting the ball around the diamond during the conference as well. Why not allow infield practice? The rules do not disallow it.

This action is up to the umpire to make a decision on what he will allow. If it is me, I am not allowing throwing the ball around during a conference. For one there could be a delay if they throw the ball away. There is a safety issue if there are people standing around and not completely aware a baseball is being thrown around the infield. I do not care what other umpires do. I would only care if my state organization has given a specific ruling on this and they have never done so. That has not happen. There is no casebook situation that says this is OK. If the coach is so worried about his players warming up, then do it before the game or between innings. It does not even say in the rulebook that a team has the right to take infield before the game. It is not a right to have a kid warm-up in this situation. If you want to allow warming up, then allow it. I am not going to allow it. That is all there is to it.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
officialtony,

You are missing the point. The rule does not permit or allow for warming up to take place during a defensive conference. I guess someone could use your logic and say that we should allow hitting the ball around the diamond during the conference as well.

The FED rules specifically disallow this, Jeff.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

The FED rules specifically disallow this, Jeff.

Disallows what? The warming up or the taking infield?

Peace

[officialtony]

OK .
Do it your way. If it is right for you and no one challenges it, then OK. I disagree with your logic after having, myself, been persuaded away from the kind of thinking you express. But, ultimately, it is your call.

[Tim C]

Jeff, FEDERATION rules specifically do not allow any player or coach to hit balls to defensive players after the start of a game. It is clearly written in the "Field Conduct" rules.

Other than that there is no rule against infielders warming up with a ball during the change of a picther. If it is safe between innings it must certainly be safe at any other time.

As for an base umpire worrying about "his" own safety: well, during a change of pitcher I am in the outfield at either "B" or "C" extended so safety is not an issue.

So I think you better read your own posts:

You said the rules forbid warming up during the pitching change which is incorrect.

You yourself established that the "hitting of balls" was during a conference therefore it was not "during infield" . . .

Jeff, you've reach way out on this one.

Care to think it over?

[Edited by Tim C on Apr 19th, 2005 at 02:02 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by officialtony
OK .
Do it your way. If it is right for you and no one challenges it, then OK. I disagree with your logic after having, myself, been persuaded away from the kind of thinking you express. But, ultimately, it is your call.

I do not care if they challenge my ruling. Whether they challenge it or not does not change that no where in the rules does it state they have the right to do that.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Tim C
Jeff, FEDERATION rules specifically do not allow any player or coach to hit balls to defensive players after the start of a game. It is clearly written in the "Field Conduct" rules.

Other than that there is no rule against infielders warming up with a ball during the change of a picther. If it is safe between innings it must certainly be safe at any other time.

As for an base umpire worrying about "his" own safety: well, during a change of pitcher I am in the outfield at either "B" or "C" extended so safety is not an issue.

So I think you better read your own posts:

You said the rules forbid warming up during the pitching change which is incorrect.

You yourself established that the "hitting of balls" was during a conference therefore it was not "during infield" . . .

Jeff, you've reach way out on this one.

Care to think it over?

[Edited by Tim C on Apr 19th, 2005 at 02:02 PM]

I think you are not really reading what I am saying. What I am saying is we are dealing with conferences here. We are only dealing with Rule 3-4-1 in this discussion (at least I am). We are not dealing with every single rule in the rulebook. In the conferences rules, there is no rule that allows anything outside of conferring with players.

The rule you are talking about (3-3-1d) deals with conduct that might lead to possible ejections. I am not talking about ejecting anyone. I am talking about what I am going to allow. I am not going to eject someone if they try this. I just will not allow this to talk place at all.

The casebook is the book for FED that gives interpretations or clarifications. There is no play that addresses this under Rule 3-4-1 as well.

If someone disagrees, contact the state and ask them. If they feel this should be allowed, then they will contact me and put out information that clarifies what is allowed or not allowed during a defensive conference. If the state allows it, I will do what the state allows. I never said the rules could not be interpreted that way, I am saying I do not see it that way.

Peace

[whatgameyouwatchinblue]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I do not care if they challenge my ruling. Whether they challenge it or not does not change that no where in the rules does it state they have the right to do that.

Peace

3.3.1 in the case book. fed rules.
situation P: during a charged conference, the coach or other bench prsonnel A)hits or B) throws fly balls to a substitute outfielder, Ruling illegal in a) and legal in B)

TO me that sounds like you can throw the ball around.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue

3.3.1 in the case book. fed rules.
situation P: during a charged conference, the coach or other bench prsonnel A)hits or B) throws fly balls to a substitute outfielder, Ruling illegal in a) and legal in B)

TO me that sounds like you can throw the ball around.

Great job W. You beat me to the case book citation. Everyone arguing whether can or can not and rule was right there for everyone to see. Now we know who does and who does not read their rules and case books diligently or are just to lazy to open them up and look for the definitive answer before posting. The I don't care attitude by some umpires toward the rules is probably evident on the field also.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue


3.3.1 in the case book. fed rules.
situation P: during a charged conference, the coach or other bench prsonnel A)hits or B) throws fly balls to a substitute outfielder, Ruling illegal in a) and legal in B)

TO me that sounds like you can throw the ball around.

That is not what happened in the original story. This was not a substitute. This was two players already in the game. A substitute is one thing. Two players already in the game is another issue all together. Find me a play that covers that, I will then agree with you.

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by JRutledge

That is not what happened in the original story. This was not a substitute. This was two players already in the game. A substitute is one thing. Two players already in the game is another issue all together. Find me a play that covers that, I will then agree with you.

Peace

Put the shoe on the other foot and you find a play that says that you can NOT let players in the game warm up.

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by David B


Put the shoe on the other foot and you find a play that says that you can NOT let players in the game warm up.

Thanks
David

Rule 10-2-3g says (talking about the Umpire in Chief), "Make final decision on points not covered by the rules."

There is no rule that allows active players to throw the ball around during a conference, so it is ultimately my (or anyone else) decision when I am the Umpire in Chief.

I do not think this kind of action is in the spirit of the rules. You have a right to disagree. Not everyone does the same things across the board.

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Rule 10-2-3g says (talking about the Umpire in Chief), "Make final decision on points not covered by the rules."

There is no rule that allows active players to throw the ball around during a conference, so it is ultimately my (or anyone else) decision when I am the Umpire in Chief.

I do not think this kind of action is in the spirit of the rules. You have a right to disagree. Not everyone does the same things across the board.

Peace

That's what I thought. If you're going to use that logic then don't let the players on the field throw the ball around between innings either.

There is a one minute time limit and after the one minute is up then no more throws are allowed. It doesn't say anything in the rule about the catcher being ready or not.

That's really silly IMO.

As Tee said, we're standing in RF or LF, let em warm up. When PU's ready to play, lets' play.

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

It sounds like to me David, you are just adding stuff to the discussion because someone does not agree with you. I have never said this is what everyone has to do. I have made it clear that this is how I would handle the situation. Actually, I couldn't care less what others do as it relates to this rule (or non-rule). I know what I am going to do. I have also never seen a coach try this. It is like worrying about whether a player corks an aluminum bat. Until it happens, I am not going to worry about it. When it happens, I have a pretty good idea what I am going to say or do about it. I know others that feel the same way or would not allow this to happen. They just are not on a website talking about it.

Peace