We have a coach that uses a defensive conference with the current pitcher to give his substitute some extra warm-up throws prior to bringing him in.

Coach (usually) calls time. Walks onto the field with a ball and when he gets to the mound, he tosses the ball to the short-stop who begins tossing with the 2nd baseman. While he talks to the pitcher, the SS, will get a dozen or so throws in. Conference ends and coach returns to dugout. A pitch or 2 later, coach calls time again and now brings in the SS to pitch.

The first time this happened with me, I ordered the ball off the field. The coach responds that there is no rule prohibiting this. I responded that game management allows me to restrict this activity to prevent delays and keep things moving. He threw "you don't want this kid to hurt his arm, do you?" at me.


Thoughts and rule reference please? thx

Had this discussion and had my thinking changed. If a coach wants to let a ball be tossed around during a conference, it is not disallowed under FED rules. Since the posting of the thread that Luke alluded to, I have had four games where that situation has occurred and I allowed the ball to be tossed around. Injured player was removed from the field and F3 was moved to F5. Wanted to warm up his arm while they were removing the injured player. Why not? If a coach wants to use his time out to let a field player get a little extra warm-up before bringing him in - why not? Again, I had my thinking changed on this by persuasive argument. I was in your camp prior to the post mentioned by Luke. I am now in the other camp. I can learn from others.
My humble opinion.

It's allowed in NCAA as well. Huston Street warmed up as thirdbaseman with a player from the dugout many times last year while coach was conferring with the current pitcher.

I think you're allowing the conference to go on to long. Here's what I do. Coach calls time out and as he's walking to the mound I clean the plate. When that's done I stand in front of the plate for a reasonable period of time. I then walk quickly to the mound (if the conference is still going on). Hey Coach are you making a change. If not. Coach let's play ball.

the *intent* of the warmup pitch limitations appear to me to be entirely based on avoiding delays. If theres no delay here, no harm. JMO.

It is up to the umpire to allow it or not allow it. This is not a one size fits all application. First of all this is a safety issue. What if one of those players throws the ball and misses their target? You have umpires and possibly runners that have to dodge a ball they ordinarily would not have to worry about. The very reason during the pregame meeting the players are not allowed on the field is so the umpires and coaches do not have to dodge balls flying at them. I would use the same logic here.

Also, it is not your responsibility to keep players from getting hurt. That is not our job. If players are not warmed up before the game, that is there fault and the coaches fault. The rules are specific on what is allowed to throw the ball around and those mainly apply the pitchers. I have in my career allowed fielders to throw the ball around, but it is not required. I know I do not get paid enough money for medical expenses if I get hit or I do not want to pay lawyers to defend myself if someone else gets hit. Until the NF uses such a rule to restrict or allow such a situation, then I am going to use my discretion. For me this is not about a delay, this is about safety (mainly my own).

Peace

As I said on the original post, if throwing the ball around a few extra times helps the new pitcher throw strikes better, it is better for everybody. I would consider it far safer, for the batter, to have a pitcher properly warmed up, than to let one slip while warming up in the infield, when he is not really throwing hard.

Could you please tell me what rule specifically prevents players from throwing a ball around during a conference or when an injury has occurred and players are being replaced? Your post says the " rules are specific " and I know of none. I would like to have them if you can provide them. It will not change my opinion, but if it is a rule that needs enforcing, it would change my attitude.

Also, in one sentence you state " First of all this is a safety issue. " Then in the next paragraph you state " it is not your responsibility to keep players from getting hurt. " Then in your final paragraph you state " . . this is about safety ( mainly my own )." This final statement says
" mainly " your own but not COMPLETELY your own so I guess that means someone else's safety as well - the players, the coaches, the fans? So I guess I want to ask. Which is it?
I fought this battle in a previous post and realized I was wrong. I still feel I was wrong, but I am curious why you feel you have FED support on your position. Please provide that for me.

Thanks.

The FED rules are clear.

2-10-1.

3-4-1.

The most important rule I will reference is 10-2-3g which says, "Make final decisions on rules not covered by the rules."

There is nothing that allows such activity or even states that throwing the ball around is the purpose of a conference. The purpose of a conference is to "confer with defensive player or players." It does not say, "Throw the ball around for warming up player or players."

If that is not good enough for you, find me a rule that says otherwise. Find me a rule that says it is OK to do this.

Peace

Oh please, let's not get into this again. We all know:

1. Some things are allowed that the rules do not specifically permit.

2. Some things are not allowed that the rules do not specifically prohibit.

Examples of #1: chewing gum, running out to the field to get into position, and smiling.

Examples of #2: digging a trench around 2B, pouring molasses all over the pitcher, and screaming nonstop.

Please do not play "burden tennis" with the rules. Good judgment is required concerning what is in the spirit of the game and what good officiating requires. If you don't know whether these virtues permit a specific practice, then ask. That's what the board is for. I take it that's what this thread is for...

With respect to throwing the ball around: yes, the rules are silent about this, but that doesn't cut either way. My own view is: it does no harm until it slows the game, at which point I would disallow it on those grounds. I don't buy the "safety issue" business - it's no more a safety issue during a conference than it is between innings.

[Edited by mbyron on Apr 19th, 2005 at 04:08 AM]

I dont' have last year's book with me, but the current rule states that both players "warming up" must be in the current line-up. 9-4a AR6

Good point. Wonder if it was the DH who jumped out of the dugout to warm him up.

Sorry " Peace ", but 2-10-1 does NOT prohibit a ball being thrown around during a conference. iN FACT, IT DOES NOT PROHIBIT anything. It only speaks to who is involed in the charged conference. It doesn't disallow players talking to each other, stopping to get a drink while the conference is going on, retying their shoes, changing a fielders glove, or a multitude of other things - INCLUDING THROWING A BALL AROUND! Since it doesn't say the coach must walk forwards would you disallow him walking backwards if he chooses to? Everyone of these is as ridiculous as not letting them throw a ball around. So how does 2-10-1 give anyone the authority to prevent a ball from being tossed?

And . . . 3-4-1 makes NO reference to a ball being prohibited from the players while conferences are going on. It only identifies the rule on the overall requirements for a charged conference, which has NOTHING to do with players activities during the conference.

Geez, we have already debated this and I was wrong. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Be strong enough to admit the same and move on.

Oh yeah watch out for 10-2-3g on this forum.
It spells trouble. Might want to rethink that one too.
I have learned on that one as well.

[Edited by officialtony on Apr 19th, 2005 at 09:34 AM]

By the way mcrowder.
The original post did say the ball was tossed to the SS who played catch with the 2nd baseman ( or vice versa ) during the conference. I wasn't sure if you were having fun or if you missed that part. If you were having fun with the post, forgive my intrusion.