Home Run....Batter Runner slaps high fives

[GarthB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress

Originally posted by GarthB

And I recall at least one wannabe who gave a ruling without knowing he could be wrong.

I didn't know mind-reading was one of your many skills.

I'm not sure I saw more than one person post who didn't realize he could be wrong.

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Originally posted by Carl Childress

I didn't know mind-reading was one of your many skills.

I'm not sure I saw more than one person post who didn't realize he could be wrong.

It must be late in your time zone. I'm not reading minds; I'm just recalling what that poster wrote.

I'm also confused by the next sentence. Didn't you mean that you were sure you saw more than one person post who could have been wrong? If you didn't, I'm not sure about what you're not sure about.

[GarthB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Originally posted by Carl Childress

I didn't know mind-reading was one of your many skills.

I'm not sure I saw more than one person post who didn't realize he could be wrong.

It must be late in your time zone. I'm not reading minds; I'm just recalling what that poster wrote.

Must be late. I don't recall reading anyone saying he couldn't be wrong. I'll recheck.



[Edited by GarthB on Apr 8th, 2005 at 02:44 AM]

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Originally posted by GarthB

It must be late in your time zone. I'm not reading minds; I'm just recalling what that poster wrote.

Must be late. I don't recall reading anyone saying he couldn't be wrong. I'll recheck.

I'm also confused by the next sentence. Didn't you mean that you were sure you saw more than one person post who could have been wrong? If you didn't, I'm not sure about what you're not sure about.

That's a first.

No, it's a second. At first I didn't know what you meant when you wrote: "I only recall one poster." Then I figured out you meant you "recall only one poster."

But enough of this chit chat. Let us in on the meaning of this sentence in the context of the discussion: "I'm not sure I saw more than one person post who didn't realize he could be wrong."

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Here's the skinny.

Some amateur coaches were playing in NCAA when there was a severe penalty for the action you describe.

Beginning in 1983, the home runner hitter was out when anyone other than the base coach touched him before he touched the plate. (7-11x)

In 1984 they tweaked it a little by adding "after a warning, the batter is out...," etc.

In 1999, the NCAA dropped that statute (7-11x is no longer in the book) and replaced it with: For the action you describe: Warning first offense; ejection, subsequent offenses. (5-2d)

BTW: They also added that other than "preceding base runners" no team member could be on the dirt at home plate. The penalty: Warning first offense; second offense, ejection of "one of the offending players."

That's still the rule in NCAA!

You never mentioned the level of play, so those who rushed to say there is no penalty could be wrong.

Lah, me, everyone is an expert these days. I suppose I had better start reading The Forum daily. (grin)

One thing's sure: The question is not an OOO. In my area, coaches do not permit their players to violate the [non-existent FED] rule. I am always amused when I hear a coach scream: "Stay off the dirt!" It happened in my game Tuesday night. Both coaches had played at the local D1 school.

Personally, I think it would be a positive move for FED to adopt it as well. Some teams visiting in our area clog up the third-base line after a home run. The home team coach always hustles out to demand we enforce the penalty and becomes quite disgruntled when he finds there isn't one.

CC:

As the "wannabe" in question; I will admit that I assumed [and we all know what happens when you do that] a HS or youth game; and further that I don't do enough college ball for it to even register with me that there might be a BRD here [I generally don't post on NCAA topics for exactly that reason]. However, my mea culpa for not having first consulted my Carl Childress library made ; I think you better take another look at the post I was responding to [I've added emphasis to help you out]:

originally posted by Rick Friedmann

I'd go with a team warning if any of them come out without helmets one (even though the ball is in dead-ball territory) - provided the knucklehead batter doesn't stop running and a teammate has to point him to the plate in which case there would be a problem. I'd not take a home run away for exuberance, although I'd remind them that if they did it during a live ball they could be costing their team a run.

Now, again, I'm no NCAA guru, but the rule you are talking about has nothing to do with removing helmets, does it? Nor would a violation cost the team a run if the ball were live, right?

So- if, by chance Brer Friedmann should tell us he was, in fact considering the NCAA rule set [rather than FED]; or if the original post referenced a College game - there is still a problem with giving a team warning for the "violation" cited [removing helmets when the ball is dead], and the penalty threatened [calling the runner out & preventing the run, rather than warning/EJ for the guys on the dirt], correct?

Seems like you are running up a different hill to find a more advantageous battleground: that, or you've somehow found out I didn't order the '05 BRD [sticking w/ '04 for now & making notes in the margins]

And Carl: you really don't think that umpires enforcing "non-existent" [your words] FED rules is Overly Officious?

Lah Me!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by cbfoulds

CC:

As the "wannabe" in question; I will admit that I assumed [and we all know what happens when you do that] a HS or youth game; and further that I don't do enough college ball for it to even register with me that there might be a BRD here [I generally don't post on NCAA topics for exactly that reason]. However, my mea culpa for not having first consulted my Carl Childress library made ; I think you better take another look at the post I was responding to [I've added emphasis to help you out]:

Now, again, I'm no NCAA guru, but the rule you are talking about has nothing to do with removing helmets, does it? Nor would a violation cost the team a run if the ball were live, right?

So- if, by chance Brer Friedmann should tell us he was, in fact considering the NCAA rule set [rather than FED]; or if the original post referenced a College game - there is still a problem with giving a team warning for the "violation" cited [removing helmets when the ball is dead], and the penalty threatened [calling the runner out & preventing the run, rather than warning/EJ for the guys on the dirt], correct?

Seems like you are running up a different hill to find a more advantageous battleground: that, or you've somehow found out I didn't order the '05 BRD [sticking w/ '04 for now & making notes in the margins]

And Carl: you really don't think that umpires enforcing "non-existent" [your words] FED rules is Overly Officious?

Lah Me!

cb: Your comments are in black; mine are in navy.

As the "wannabe" in question;

You weren't the "wannabe" I was writing about. Nothing in your tone exhibited a belief in your own infallibility.

Now, again, I'm no NCAA guru, but the rule you are talking about has nothing to do with removing helmets, does it?

No, the NCAA has no rule about removing helmets during a live ball.

Nor would a violation cost the team a run if the ball were live, right?

Again, that's right. But from 1984 to 1999, the second time someone from the same team violated the edict, the umpire would call out the home run hitter and cancel his run. Other runners would score unless there were two outs and they had not crossed the plate before the infraction.

there is still a problem with giving a team warning for the "violation" cited [removing helmets when the ball is dead], and the penalty threatened [calling the runner out & preventing the run, rather than warning/EJ for the guys on the dirt], correct?

I don't understand. I was responding to the original post, which said nothing about removing a helmet.

And Carl: you really don't think that umpires enforcing "non-existent" [your words] FED rules is Overly Officious?

You bet I do. But my comment said that "coaches" in my area want to enforce the rule: "Stay off the dirt!" some scream from the third-base box. Our umpires know the rules.

Well, not all the rules. Tuesday an umpire in my association called out a runner for hurdling over a catcher on his knees (not prone). Good call! He then ejected the runner even though there was no contact. Bad call!

Worse call: Coach J.J. Lerma, screaming and yelling. Not at the umpire. At me, on the phone the next day. "Carl, this is awful. Why are you guys sending me umpires like that? This is 5A ball."

J.J.'s team has 3 wins and a whole lot of losses, so I couldn't resist: "But J.J., it's pretty sh!tty 5A ball, no?"

Laughter from J.J.

I umpired him when he was in PONY ball. Hell, I umpired his dad when he was in high school.

[rickfriedmann]

"Brer" Friedmann took a step back and admitted he was wrong about 15 replies ago. So, pile on somone else!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by rickfriedmann
"Brer" Friedmann took a step back and admitted he was wrong about 15 replies ago. So, pile on somone else!

There was no intent to pile on you. I never read your post at all. I simply replied to the original issue. That's why I couldn't understand where removing a helmet came into the situation. But, if you want me to pile on "someone else," forward me a name, and I'll do it. (grin)

[cbfoulds]

Carl: M'bad - must have missed something in th thread [that, or assuming again: slap my wrist].

"Brer" Friedmann: not piling [sp?] on; just trying [unecessarily, as it appears] to explain myself. "Brer", as in Brer Rabbit, Brer Bear, and all those "folk": not an insult at all.

Cheers:
-- Brer cbfoulds

[rickfriedmann]

Actually, I liked the "Brer" part! My "piling on" referred to the few posts that continued to infer I was in OOO land long after I admitted I threw a flag too quickly.
Tough crowd here! I better stay on my toes.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Here's the skinny.

Some amateur coaches were playing in NCAA when there was a severe penalty for the action you describe.

Beginning in 1983, the home runner hitter was out when anyone other than the base coach touched him before he touched the plate. (7-11x)

In 1984 they tweaked it a little by adding "after a warning, the batter is out...," etc.

In 1999, the NCAA dropped that statute (7-11x is no longer in the book) and replaced it with: For the action you describe: Warning first offense; ejection, subsequent offenses. (5-2d)

BTW: They also added that other than "preceding base runners" no team member could be on the dirt at home plate. The penalty: Warning first offense; second offense, ejection of "one of the offending players."

That's still the rule in NCAA!

You never mentioned the level of play, so those who rushed to say there is no penalty could be wrong.

Lah, me, everyone is an expert these days. I suppose I had better start reading The Forum daily. (grin)

One thing's sure: The question is not an OOO. In my area, coaches do not permit their players to violate the [non-existent FED] rule. I am always amused when I hear a coach scream: "Stay off the dirt!" It happened in my game Tuesday night. Both coaches had played at the local D1 school.

Personally, I think it would be a positive move for FED to adopt it as well. Some teams visiting in our area clog up the third-base line after a home run. The home team coach always hustles out to demand we enforce the penalty and becomes quite disgruntled when he finds there isn't one.

We never have problems like that here. The players all wait behind the plate like their coaches teach them. I always am right there saying, "Let him touch. Let him touch."

It is being OO. It's a rule myth that has some basis in fact (the old NCAA rule) but is a myth in FED baseball. Looking for something like this, even in an NCAA game, is OO. I know I've not specifically paid attention to the location of the congratulating players in NCAA games. As long as the BR has a clear path to the plate, it's all good with me.