NFHS legal windup

[SMEngmann]

I am a coach and a basketball official. I am unclear about an apparent rules difference between the NFHS and the NCAA regarding legal action from the windup. My pitcher was called for an illegal pitch because he engaged the rubber with his hands seperate and then he brought his hands together snd paused and was called for an illegal pitch and charged with a ball. Is this ruling correct, and if so, what is the rule reference. I know NCAA Rule 9-1 (a, 1, c) states that it is legal in college, and I don't see any conceivable reason why the rule prohibiting this in HS should exist. Am I missing something?

[jicecone]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I am a coach and a basketball official. I am unclear about an apparent rules difference between the NFHS and the NCAA regarding legal action from the windup. My pitcher was called for an illegal pitch because he engaged the rubber with his hands seperate and then he brought his hands together snd paused and was called for an illegal pitch and charged with a ball. Is this ruling correct, and if so, what is the rule reference. I know NCAA Rule 9-1 (a, 1, c) states that it is legal in college, and I don't see any conceivable reason why the rule prohibiting this in HS should exist. Am I missing something?

No coach the official did. The official probably didn't explain it, because he couldn't. This is legal in the wind-up position. Had he started with both hands together and then separated them it would have been different.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I am a coach and a basketball official. I am unclear about an apparent rules difference between the NFHS and the NCAA regarding legal action from the windup. My pitcher was called for an illegal pitch because he engaged the rubber with his hands seperate and then he brought his hands together snd paused and was called for an illegal pitch and charged with a ball. Is this ruling correct, and if so, what is the rule reference. I know NCAA Rule 9-1 (a, 1, c) states that it is legal in college, and I don't see any conceivable reason why the rule prohibiting this in HS should exist. Am I missing something?

FED
F1 engages rubber with hands at sided - legal
F1 now brings his hands together - still legal
F1 pauses after bringing hands together - legal
If F1 breaks his hands without stepping off that would be a balk/illegal pitch depending if there are runners on.

I don't see why your F1 was charged with anything. but let's go further.

Now comes the difference between the two.

NCAA - From the Windup position F1 may

1. Deliver the ball to the batter

2. Step and throw in an attempt to pick off a runner

3. Disengage from the pitching rubber by stepping back with the pivot foot first before seperating his hands or stepping back with the free foot.

FED - From the Windup position F1 may

1. Deliver the ball to the batter

2. Disengage from the pitching rubber by stepping back with the pivot foot first.

[DG]

Read 6.1.2 real carefully. In Fed it would be a balk/illegal pitch if the pitcher with both hands at his side and standing on the rubber brings his hands together in front and then stops. This is a highly technical balk that is rarely if ever called.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I am a coach and a basketball official. I am unclear about an apparent rules difference between the NFHS and the NCAA regarding legal action from the windup. My pitcher was called for an illegal pitch because he engaged the rubber with his hands seperate and then he brought his hands together snd paused and was called for an illegal pitch and charged with a ball. Is this ruling correct, and if so, what is the rule reference. I know NCAA Rule 9-1 (a, 1, c) states that it is legal in college, and I don't see any conceivable reason why the rule prohibiting this in HS should exist. Am I missing something?

In FED, the time of the pitch from the wind-up includes moving both hands simultaneously (see 2-28-3(b) and 2.28.cC). Your pitcher did that, then stopped. It's an illegal pitch.

If your pitcher wants to adjust the ball, have him start with one hand (usually the glove hand) in front, then bring the other hand up and adjust the ball, then start the pitch.

[Tim C]

This is just a "me too" post.

The movement of BOTH hands in FED is the start of the wind-up.

The call was correct and IS CALLED by experienced umpires at all times.

It is not a "highly technical balk." It is simply illegal in Federation play.

[jicecone]

Ok, I'll suck it up. I fell into case 6.1.2 Sit C: which uses the phrase "brings his hands together", but there are plenty others that describe the separate movement of the arms, that is necessary. My Bad.

[Kaliix]

You have to move both hands at the same time to bring them together if the hands are at your sides when you engage the rubber. Is just bringing your hands together and then pausing a balk or do you have to bring your hands together and then make some other movement and then pause that will cause a balk?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Kaliix
You have to move both hands at the same time to bring them together if the hands are at your sides when you engage the rubber.

No, you don't. In FED, starting with both hands at the side, it's legal to move first one hand to the front, then to move the other hand to the front, then pause.

Is just bringing your hands together and then pausing a balk or do you have to bring your hands together and then make some other movement and then pause that will cause a balk?

If both hands are moved at the same time, it's an illegal pitch to not continue with the pitch.

[Kaliix]

Ahhh, okay, I see what your saying.

Thanks for clearing that up Bob!

Originally posted by bob jenkins

No, you don't. In FED, starting with both hands at the side, it's legal to move first one hand to the front, then to move the other hand to the front, then pause.

If both hands are moved at the same time, it's an illegal pitch to not continue with the pitch.

[ozzy6900]

With all respect to the participates

Wind up
F1 on the rubber, hands at his sides. F1 brings hands together, pauses and then delivers to the plate.

I know a lot of you say its an illegal pitch or a balk. By interpretation, yes it is. But how many of you really call it on the field? I see it all the time in JV and Varsity. I've seen it in SCC finals and tournament finals - and I've never, ever seen it called!

Or is just one of those "I'll call it on the board but never in real life?"

[Tim C]

In Portland, OR we call it EVERY time at all high school levels.

[gobama84]

In Alabama it is called a balk. It's in the rule book isn't it? POE this year in FED is Umpires shall call what is in the rule book. Don't pick and choose.

[Peruvian]

Originally posted by gobama84
In Alabama it is called a balk.

No, it's not. All the district directors (at least up here) say that's legal.

I'd have to see it to make a determination, but from what I read it was a legal move.

[Edited by Peruvian on Apr 6th, 2005 at 02:57 PM]

[Tim C]

Please you don't have "to see it" . . . the posts and the rules references that make it a balk are quite clear.

What am I missing here . . . I need something to make me see your side.