PU covers third base on batter-runner triple

[Ump20]

I recall reading or hearing of a minor league or independent league where in a two-man system with no runners on the PU would cover third base on a triple. The reasoning for this mechanic was I think born of the knowledge of the speed of the runners and the desire to bring the umpire as close to the play as possible (considering angle and distance).

I do know of a high school umpire who advocated this coverage but it was only because he was either too slow or lazy. I am only bringing this up for discussion purposes. Does anyone see any merit in this? Jim/NY

[JJ]

This coverage has been a topic of discussion off and on for years in my neck of the woods. We don't teach it as trainers because in lower levels of ball (e.g. high school)if the throw gets by the third baseman there is often only a dead ball line (as opposed to an enclosed ballpark) where the ball ends up. If the plateman comes inside the diamond for that throw at third, and the base ump isn't sprinting (and sometimes even if he is) there is nobody in position to see if that ball crosses that line. If the base ump takes the runner into third, and the ball gets away there, the plateman has only to take a couple of steps to see it clearly.

[David B]

JJ

I have heard this mechanic debated time and time again, but I have to admit that your reply is the first time I have heard the reason for the PU to stay at home is so he can see the ball if it goes to dead ball territory.

If the ball does get away from the third baseman, it seems to me that it would be a lot closer if the person covering the play at third made that call. He is 15-20 feet away depending on the field of course, while the PU is 75-90 feet away.

As Dave mentioned above, it's really not that hard to rotate. The BU should be covering the runner to 2nd and then he simply peels off toward the mound as the BR advances to third.

From that position he can return to 2nd if the BR gets in a rundown between 2nd and 3rd or he can advance to home if there is an overthrow and the BR advances to the plate.

We use this mechanic at all age levels even summer leagues and it seems to work very well.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

However, if we truly buy into "Angle over Distance", then the PU staying home gives that edge.

It also allows the PU to drift towards the dead ball line to see the angle even more clearly.

Somehow the mechanic has become a cause that the "PU is a lazy slacker" if he doesn't come out and help at third.

My process is thus:

As PU when that situation occurs I busy myself by:

1) Clearning the bat from home plate area (sorry Rich),
2) Glancing as the BR touches bases,
3) Always watching the ball ("Keep your eye with dillegence on the ball"),
4) Check the Plate area for other obstructions if there possibly could be a play,
5) and as the play moves into third base I move to the first base line extended position to ready for over throws.

While I don't cover many miles I am still involve, intimately, in the play.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Tim C
However, if we truly buy into "Angle over Distance", then the PU staying home gives that edge.

Tee: We are now in the 21st century. The major league umpires always score first in any poll asking respondents which professional official does the best job. That's because they are typically waiting at a base for a play to occur. They need not move for position; they don't have to view the play from behind. They are ready: One play, one call.

That cannot occur when the BU takes the batter-runner all the way to third; uh, oops, I mean to the shortstop, where the BR realized he needed to return to second -- and did.

There is no amount of rationalization that can be adduced to prove the above statement wrong.

For more than 50 years the PRO mechanic was: BU takes the batter-runner to second. As soon as BR commits to third, BU moves to the plate-edge of the working area, prepared to cover the plate if necessary (overthrow at third). The PU, meanwhile, has walked down to third and is waiting for the BR to arrive. No umpire is "busting" because both umpires are working.

The Childress Principles for Mechanics for the 21st Century are both in place: (1) The umpire is waiting at the base. That means there is an umpire in front of and behind the advancing runner. (2) The umpire is stationed for the most likely place. The BU (at the mound) can cover second or the plate.

The mechanic changed in the 70s because of FAT plate umpires who were just too lazy to do their jobs. Officials of amateur games quickly followed because....

Tee: I am convinced that having an umpire on the spot at third is much more important than cleaning your glasses or tugging on your underwear, or whatever mundane, non-vital duties you thought up to occupy yourself while the BU was covering, first, second, third, and second.

You might as well fire up your cell phone, call your broker, and make a few trades. If you don't cover third, you don't have anything important to do on the diamond, that's for damn sure.

[Edited by Carl Childress on Feb 13th, 2001 at 09:25 AM]

[Tim C]

. . . extremely well thought out and artfully written.

I cannot argue your dynamics (everything you say is correct)
or logic.

My entire point is based on MHO and that side of the coin should be said.

Again, thanks for the response.

Tee

[Bfair]

BTW, the PU covering 3rd has been and continues to be the accepted mechanic taught for High School baseball (and specified in the NFHS Umpires (Mechanics) Manual

[BJ Moose]

Certainly just another of the list of 241 "optional" mechanics. CC's case is compelling, but most of us do NEED to adhere to the prescribed mechanics as taught by our associations. For what it is worth, however, I'm going to experiment with this with some willing partners.

But the fun part.... As BU... we so rarely get to take that runner into third and make a call. It's FUN! I enjoy this. (F and LZ blues, feel free to SKIP this section).

Mike Branch
Member
EWS

[Edited by BJ Moose on Feb 13th, 2001 at 02:09 PM]

[blarson]

Carl...

I like this mechanic, and use it when I have a trusted partner, but when I'm BU I feel that I end up 'busting' towards home. Does this mean that I'm waiting too long?

I make the move into the diamond on the fly to the OF, after the BR's touch of 2B I start to drift towards home anticipating that's my responsibility in case of a play. I'm also worried about a run down though where I won't be near second so I wait almost until a slide or at least the runner in that area to commit to home and in such cases I usually am on the hustle to make sure that I'm there well ahead of the play.

Am I wating to long to make that move? It just seems that he can get at least 2/3rd of the way to 3B before he is commited. On more question...if you end up rimming the diamond on one that your not quite sure of should you still be ready to conver the plate even though I wouldn't be quite as far into the diamond had I not have been? I'd tend to think that it would still be my responsibility.

Bob L

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by blarson
Carl...

I like this mechanic, and use it when I have a trusted partner, but when I'm BU I feel that I end up 'busting' towards home. Does this mean that I'm waiting too long?

I make the move into the diamond on the fly to the OF, after the BR's touch of 2B I start to drift towards home anticipating that's my responsibility in case of a play. I'm also worried about a run down though where I won't be near second so I wait almost until a slide or at least the runner in that area to commit to home and in such cases I usually am on the hustle to make sure that I'm there well ahead of the play.

Am I wating to long to make that move? It just seems that he can get at least 2/3rd of the way to 3B before he is commited. On more question...if you end up rimming the diamond on one that your not quite sure of should you still be ready to conver the plate even though I wouldn't be quite as far into the diamond had I not have been? I'd tend to think that it would still be my responsibility.Bob L

You're already at the park, buddy. By the time the BR reaches a step beyond the shortstop, if his head is down (he's not looking over his shoulder), you go to the edge of the mound. That Bubba ain't gonna return to second.

Remember, now, you don't have to be on top of the plate for the call (misplay at third). You're going to have a perfect angle on that play from inside the diamond. Remember, too, the BR will slide at third, the ball will get away, his coach will scream, he'll jump up, locate the ball, and then try to hurry home. If you're at the mound (60) and he's scrambling to his feet (90), I hope you can beat him. If not, get yourself a treadmill.

Finally, for those who don't use this mechanic: As the base umpire you will prepare to cover home 100 times in a season. Once the runner will try to score. When you make that call at the plate, every fan in the park will cheer, even the ones who lost the call.

I have never seen it to fail. Everybody loves to see the base umpire call a play at the plate, just like they love to see a plate umpire call a play at second.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

The mechanic changed in the 70s because of FAT plate umpires who were just too lazy to do their jobs".

Papa C perhaps the BU is the one who is too lazy. With no-one on base and a hit to the outfield, the BU comes in, does a button hook, watches B1 touch First and then follows B1 to whatever base he goes to. What's so difficult about that?

If the BU is following proper mechanics, he should always be ahead of the runner since he is cutting across the diamond (via hypotenuse like) and be in proper position when a play is being made.

Now if my partner falls asleep or stumbles a bit, I will then say I've got 3, cover home

Let the BU Earn his keep . The PU has enough to worry about rather than follow only 1 runner around the bases. Now if we have action (other runners) that's different, but with no-one on base, the BU should take B1 all the way around. BTW, this is what is taught at our association.

The botoom line Work this out in the Pre-game.

Pete Booth

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
If the BU is following proper mechanics, he should always be ahead of the runner since he is cutting across the diamond (via hypotenuse like) and be in proper position when a play is being made.

Lord love you, the above sentence is exactly my point.

I've said an umpire should be waiting on a runner. That means, of course, that an umpire should be waiting at the advance base while one umpire is waiting behind at the retreat base.

As you point out, the BU can always be ahead of the runner. But he can't be in two places at once.

So BU beats BR to third. Who is covering second when the BR changes his mind and retreats to that base? I'll tell you: The second baseman, that's who. If there's a slide and a tag and the BU needs help, when he asks F4, that gentleman is gonna yell: "He's out!"

Of course, once I was PU in a game with a runner on second. My partner was in C. The batter did a half swing, and I said: "Ball! No, he didn't go." The defensive coach said: "Check him." With my partner in C, imagine! So I looked down the first base line and saw my basketball partner in the first-base coach's box. "Marcelo, did he go?" Of his own batter, Marcelo yelled: "Yes, he did!"

You gotta like a coach like that.

[GarthB]

We each have our bias on this mechanic. I'll state mine out front. I prefer the PU, in this situation (we are talking about a bases empty triple, right?) to cover third.

This is the recommended FED mechanic and it is my association/s mechanic.

Why?

1. When BU knows PU is taking third he can set up differently and better for a potential play coming into second.

2. If the runner continues, we now have umpires in front of and behind him. No matter where the play goes, it will come TOWARDS an umpire, not away from an umpire.

3. As soon as the runner passes the shortstop the BU moves towards home and, if the play continues, will be at home waiting for the runner. Again we have umpires in front of and behind the runner.


Pete suggests that BU running a "hypotenuse" will always be in front of the runner. I don't believe that to be the case. It depends on what one considers "in front of", I guess. Most often when I have seen the mechanic performed Pete's way, the BU is, at best, at a 45 degree angle from the play, putting him slightly behind a sliding runner and not being able to see the hands touch the base. He has left himself open to the real possibility of the third base coach having a better view of the play.

PU taking third can easily set up in a true 90 to the play and have the best view of the hands, touch and tag in the entire stadium

Ball gets by? PU steps to the left and takes the ball knowing that BU is waiting at home.

Benefits of this mechanic? Better views of plays, umpires in front and behind of plays, and umpires in postion before plays are made = Better calls.

Benefits of BU running to third? Well-rested Plate ump.


GarthB