Interference on A-Rod, Game 6 ALCS

[Dakota]

Originally posted by SIBill
What's the rule on the Boston first baseman standing in the lane between Arod and first base? Isn't that illegal ? And since he was standing there prior to the "tag" , what is the rule here. If Arod had barreled into him and Aroyo what would have been the rule. If a person without the ball is allowed to stand between the runner and first base, everyone would have a designated stopper at first.

One of a couple of reasons why it was a stupid move by A-Rod. Mientkiewicz may have been guilty of obstruction, but the interference took precedence.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Dakota
But, the real reason for my reply here ...

MLB umpire mechanics.... A-Rod ran wide of the base as the ball was dribbling off into right field. Was it correct for the first base umpire to signal SAFE? He obviously did not see the tag attempt (or he would have seen the interference, too). But, he obviously did see the missed base.

Once the runner has passed the base, he is considered to have touched it, therefore the call would be safe.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by LDUB

Once the runner has passed the base, he is considered to have touched it, therefore the call would be safe.

He wasn't signaling safe at the base, He was signaling "no tag."

[WindyCityBlue]

No he wasn't.

He signalled "Safe"; the mechanic for anything else is to "Say and Display". Watch the replay - he did not say "No tag".

I'm not sure what mechanic they teach in your area, but we don't have a "No Tag" signal. We verbalize "No Bag", "No Ball/No Control" and "No Tag", while signalling the call. that way there is no confusion.

[greymule]

This morning Curtis Sliwa and Ron Kuby were discussing the play on WABC. Unsurprisingly, Kuby tried to argue that the call was wrong because the rule prohibited the runner from swiping at the ball, whereas A-Rod swiped at Arroyo's arm. Kuby apparently thinks the baseball rule book should have to hold up legally before some New York City judge. Of course, a reading of the rule in its entirely does cover the play.

Then they got Warner Wolfe into the act. Warner explained that A-Rod could barrel over Arroyo as long as A-Rod stayed in the 45-foot running lane. Fielders, you see, have to stay out of that lane. Wolfe also explained that pitchers usually use a swipe tag in such a situation, because if they are in the running lane, as Arroyo was, they can be called for "interference" [we know it's OBS]. The fact that Arroyo had the ball in his possession apparently does not enter into consideration.

In fact, if there was ever an obvious call to be made, this was it. As for the people who think similar plays are not called at home plate, barreling into the catcher can be construed as an attempt to reach the plate. Reaching, swiping, grabbing, karate chopping, gouging--these are not.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
No he wasn't.

He signalled "Safe"; the mechanic for anything else is to "Say and Display". Watch the replay - he did not say "No tag".

I'm not sure what mechanic they teach in your area, but we don't have a "No Tag" signal. We verbalize "No Bag", "No Ball/No Control" and "No Tag", while signalling the call. that way there is no confusion.

Then why do they signal "safe" on a trapped ball?

[mcrowder]

His safe signal was to demonstrate that on the play (the tag), the runner was not out. His safe signal does not necessarily imply that he did or did not touch the bag.

Also, had this been simply a play at first, where ARod missed the bag, the signal (assuming he beat the ball) would still be safe.

[WindyCityBlue]

Nope...Mechanis/Signals 101

Arms extended from the shoulders = Safe, No Catch, No Swing

If an official has a play that requires explanation, verbalization or a follow up signal is required.
(i.e. "Safe, no ball" : signal is arms extended, followed by juggling motion)

Marsh did not signal safe and say "No tag". If he did, he would have been belittled even more. By saying "No tag", he indicates that he did not even see the contact that dislodged the ball. Certainly there was an attempt to tag and the B/R contacted the fielder to dislodge the ball. Since he saw teh ball on the ground, the "No Tag" call indicates that the ball came loose on its own and the error was on the pitcher.

By saying "Safe, no ball", he may have been able to save himself a little grief here. He did not say either. He simply signalled "Safe", albeit with emphasis, and stepped back. At that minute, his demeanor changed and he acknowledge that he needed help. They got the call right and game 7 has his shaken confidence (remember he butchered the Ortiz steal call on Monday) behind the dish!

[WindyCityBlue]

Rich,
On fly balls that drop to the ground, we give the "safe" signal and say "Ball Down" or "No Catch" to alert our partner(s) who should be watching for touched bases, obstruction, interference, etc. Not only is it a courtesy, but indicates on trapped balls that we've seen the entire play. But then again, that is what we do here. It may be different for you.

[Rich Ives]

I've also seen the MLB guys signal safe when an F4 takes a swipe and misses at R1 as he heads to 2B.

I really think it is a better approach at a big stadium where crowd noise might drown out a verbalization yet the players need to know the call.

[Rich Ives]

I sent a "What was the safe signal for" question to the WUA. I'll post the response if I get one.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by copeaus
there are numerous instances when MLB runners are coming into home plate where the "chuck" of their arms go straight out toward the glove of the catcher (as opposed to burying their shoulder into the shoulder/body of the catcher).

In the instances where it is a chuck at the catcher's glove I have never seen an MLB umpire call the runner out for Intentional Interference at the plate and send all other runners back.

I know what you are talking about, but in all the instances I have seen it happen in, the runner is coming home, he lowers his shoulders and arms to run into the catcher, but the catcher slides to the side, to avoid the collision and then sticks his glove out to make the tag. This makes it look as if the runner is swiping at the ball and glove when it is simple the catcher trying to avoid the collision. And I've never seen a player at the plate swipe at the glove, if the catcher sticks it out there they just run right through it, that is not the same as taking your hands and arms and swinging at the glove.

[Edited by gsf23 on Oct 20th, 2004 at 04:53 PM]

[gordon30307]

Ball is dead. Runners return to base TOP.

[WindyCityBlue]

Rich,
Having worked in stadiums with more than a few thousand people screaming, I can assure you that those guys can and do "Say and Display". It has been taught since day one in school. To think otherwise would be to question why would we even bother calling strikes and balls; instead we should just signal them. Why say "Time", instead of just holding our hands up? Think about it and be honest, isn't your mechanic exactly as I described earlier?

[mcrowder]

Bush - if ANY runner has not reached the next base, everyone goes to where they were at the TOP.