Great job

[Sal Giaco]

Originally posted by William Musick
The "return to base occupied at time of interference" clause applies only if the runner in question has already achieved first base. In this case the interfernce occurred before the batter-runner reached first, thus the runner is returned to the last occupied base.

I guess I'm a little confused on the interference penalty as it applies to other runners on base. When interference is called, do the runners return to the last base occupied at the time of pitch or at the time of the interference?

According to what Marsh said at the press conference, Jeter had to return to the last base occupied at the time of the interference - NOT time of pitch.

Can anyone help clarify - please site OBR rule references.
Thanks!

[SMEngmann]

Hey, you can't ding all of the announcers for their lack of rule knowledge, just the Fox guys. Jon Miller has a great knowledge of the rules and studies the rule book, so don't put everyone in the McCarver trap.

[Roman Konecny]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco

I guess I'm a little confused on the interference penalty as it applies to other runners on base. When interference is called, do the runners return to the last base occupied at the time of pitch or at the time of the interference?

According to what Marsh said at the press conference, Jeter had to return to the last base occupied at the time of the interference - NOT time of pitch.

Can anyone help clarify - please site OBR rule references.
Thanks!

OBR - 2.00 Definition of Terms
...
INTERFERENCE
(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules. In the event the batter runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.
<<<<<
Looks perfectly OK for me.

Roman

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by Atl Blue
NO ONE reversed anything until Marsh came to West and asked for help.

Marsh made the original call. He was obviously screened, but it was his call and he made it. Joe West and ALL of the other umpires stayed out of it, until Francona came out. He tried to go to West, who sent him to Marsh. Marsh then called West over and got help. Then Marsh called A-Rod out.

EXACTLY the way it should be done. No ump jumped in on Marsh's call. Marsh asked for help, got it, and changed his own call.

Joe West did not come offer help until asked, even though he saw something Marsh did not. And even though other umps saw something (or they would not have convinced Marsh), the PU did not make the changed call, the ump that made it did it.

Well done.

And McCarver still butchered the description of the play and the rule.

I agree that this is the way that this particular event happened. The key here is that this was a judgement call by Marsh and he decided to get help.

Compare this to the homerun call earlier, this is a different set of circumstances. Homeruns are not judgement calls.

Do you see the difference in the two types of calls?

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
I guess the "Get it Right" philosophy is working. My only question is C.C. Randy Marsh said in a press conference after the game that "the runner(s) must return to the base occupied at the time of the interference". If that's the case, why did Jeter get put back on first base rather than second base. It look like Jeter was already at second base by the time Arroyo attempted to tag Rodriguez (after all, it was a slow roller that Arroyo was going to flip the ball to first base when he realized that Mienkiewtz (sp?) was off the bag - he then reached to tag A-Rod). Anybody see or got anything different???

In the case of offensive interference is it not the case that the ball is immediately dead? That being the case the ruuner(s) return to thier base at TOP.

Also don't you think that the 1st base ump was out of position based on the way the play was developing? I think he should and easily could have positioned himself in foul territory. If he did that then he could have made the call without assitance from th PU. IMO opinion all of this huddling looks bad. Although I am pleased that the right calls were made.

[WindyCityBlue]

Atl Blue,

Yes, I was watching. You continue to display your ignorance of my dialogue here. I have never, ever proposed challenging another official's call. On the contrary I have said many times how we handle it at our levels. I have for almost eight months been a proponent of getting the call right. These guys made their calls and then were men enough to accept assistance.

Be very careful putting words in my mouth. Our members are very familiar with the quote button. The challenge is out there, Georgia boy. You want to put words in my mouth. Where's your proof? Enough members here know what I've said all along.

Being stubborn and wrong costs a lot more than being stubborn and right!

[Sal Giaco]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gordon30307

Also don't you think that the 1st base ump was out of position based on the way the play was developing? I think he should and easily could have positioned himself in foul territory.

Personally, I am not a big proponent of taking calls in foul territory because I don't like putting the base between myself and the play (meaning F3's foot or the pitcher's foot stepping on the inside part of the base). Moreover, the play changed at the last second from a toss to F3 (force play) to F1 making the play himself (tag play). Two different plays that require different positioning by the BU at first base. In his defense, it looked like Marsh tried to make an adjustment by taking a "read step" to open his angle but F3 must have blocked his view at the last second. Just my observations

[gordon30307]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sal Giaco

Originally posted by gordon30307

Personally, I am not a big proponent of taking calls in foul territory because I don't like putting the base between myself and the play (meaning F3's foot or the pitcher's foot stepping on the inside part of the base). Moreover, the play changed at the last second from a toss to F3 (force play) to F1 making the play himself (tag play). Two different plays that require different positioning by the BU at first base. In his defense, it looked like Marsh tried to make an adjustment by taking a "read step" to open his angle but F3 must have blocked his view at the last second. Just my observations

You make some valid points. I saw Marsh lean to get a better look. But what bothered me was six umpires discussing a play that really only involved PU and First Base Ump. It just looked like mass confusion to me.

[Sal Giaco]

Gordon,
Since the two leagues merged and the control of the umpiring is now under the direction of MLB, I think this is way it's going to be. We (baseball umpires) have often criticized football officials for "huddling up" but times have changed and since MLB is signing the checks, the umpires are doing what is asked of them. It may not look good, but to MLB, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I think their (MLB's) philosophy is "get it right" even if it looks bad. Like everything else, there are + & - depending how and when it's used.

[FredFan7]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
I guess the "Get it Right" philosophy is working.

Had we had the same huddle 19 years ago as we had last night, the St. Louis Cardinals may have been 1985 World Series Champions.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by FredFan7
Had we had the same huddle 19 years ago as we had last night, the St. Louis Cardinals may have been 1985 World Series Champions.

I am not so sure about that. I do not see anyone getting help on a simple out call at first. I can see how it could happen on an interference call where an umpire was screened, but not a situation like that. I am a Cardinal fan and wish that play was called right, but even I can recognize that might not have been an appropriate situation to ask for help. If that call would be subjected to debate, all those close calls would be up for debate. And I pretty sure most umpires would not ask for help on those type of plays.

Peace

[SouthGARef]

I don't think all 6 huddled up to make the call. I think the call was made by the PU after asked for help from the BU. After that, I think the six got together to discuss the rule--what happens to Jeter? Does he go to second, or does he go to first?

Of course, I doubt any of the other umpires besides the PU and BU at 1st were discussing the call because they shouldn't have been looking at it. However, in football (which is the sport I do) the officials will often come together not to discuss the call but to discuss the rule to make sure we all agree we're applying it correctly.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by SouthGARef
However, in football (which is the sport I do) the officials will often come together not to discuss the call but to discuss the rule to make sure we all agree we're applying it correctly.

I totally agree with this. That is exactly what officials do in football that did not see the call. They provide other information to help point everyone in the proper direction. I would also guess that the umpires on the foul line probably had some idea where Jeter was located on the base paths and what the rules that could be involved.

Peace

[Sal Giaco]

Todd,
I thought that was a nice compliment you gave to start this thread - it seems to have a little more meaning when it comes from an offical who works other sports.

[WindyCityBlue]

Just a thought, Sal...

I've noticed that you have come around to what I've been proposing for some time now.

It was inevitable; baseball is evolving and umpires are more accountable than ever. Fans blame us for kicking calls that "cost the team a championship", "ended a great streak by ringing him up", "cost my kid a scholarship because you can't call a strike", et al. The pressure and scrutiny have increased at the LL, HS, College and Pro levels.

You know that I think the crew did a great job fixing that mess. I thought Todd's comment was genuine, as well. However, I take more satisfaction when a fellow baseball umpire tells me that I did a great job than a non-baseball umpire. This is not a slight on Todd, I don't know him and assume that he only meant well. But, if I go to the other Boards, I can expect someone will say, "You don't even work this sport, what do you know?" No matter whether I think the official did well or not. You've seen it happen many times. I appreciate Todd's candor, but it shouldn't matter that he works multiple sports. It should only matter that he said something nice. What do you think?