Line-Up Card Problem

[Baseball_North]

Here is the situation....

In my game last night, I go in to pinch hit for the ninth hitter in our order. It is the bottom of the 7th inning. 2 outs.

I chop a crappy hit that bounces off the plate, and I manage to beat it out at 1B for an infield single. The coach of the other team then calls time and goes to the umpire. No one knew what the problem was. After a discussion between the umpire and the visiting coach, the PU said that we batted out of order and that there were 3 outs.

There was confusion, but the defense left the field, and my team took the field for the top of the 8th. While out team was warming up in the field, I just passed by the umpires (I know them, have umpired with them on numerous occasions), and asked them what the problem was.

It turned out that our eighth and ninth batters were incorrectly placed on the official line-up card. Their names were in the right order, but my coach accidently flipped their numbers. So I was talking to the umpires, and I told them, "shouldn't we just be going by the name on the line-up card". Then my coach came over and started talking, and the PU said that we were right, and the name on the card is what matters, and told my team to get back up to bat to finish the bottom of the 7th inning.

So my question is.... what actually has more power with respect to line-up screw-ups? Do you go by the name or by the number?

Also, wouldn't it be too late for them to complain, if I pinch-hit and completed by at bat?

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Here is the situation....

In my game last night, I go in to pinch hit for the ninth hitter in our order. It is the bottom of the 7th inning. 2 outs.

I chop a crappy hit that bounces off the plate, and I manage to beat it out at 1B for an infield single. The coach of the other team then calls time and goes to the umpire. No one knew what the problem was. After a discussion between the umpire and the visiting coach, the PU said that we batted out of order and that there were 3 outs.

There was confusion, but the defense left the field, and my team took the field for the top of the 8th. While out team was warming up in the field, I just passed by the umpires (I know them, have umpired with them on numerous occasions), and asked them what the problem was.

It turned out that our eighth and ninth batters were incorrectly placed on the official line-up card. Their names were in the right order, but my coach accidently flipped their numbers. So I was talking to the umpires, and I told them, "shouldn't we just be going by the name on the line-up card". Then my coach came over and started talking, and the PU said that we were right, and the name on the card is what matters, and told my team to get back up to bat to finish the bottom of the 7th inning.

So my question is.... what actually has more power with respect to line-up screw-ups? Do you go by the name or by the number?

Also, wouldn't it be too late for them to complain, if I pinch-hit and completed by at bat?

You should be going by the number, the name just an extra way of identifying the player.

But why was this not noticed at the plate confrence before the game? This is why you look over the linup cards.

[Jake80]

OBR - Each player of the offensive team shall bat in the order that his name appears in his team's batting order.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by LDUB

You should be going by the number, the name just an extra way of identifying the player.

But why was this not noticed at the plate confrence before the game? This is why you look over the linup cards.

OBR 6.01a "Each player of the offensive team shall bat in the order that his NAME appears in his teams batting order."

By your method a player could change jersey's on the bench and then come back latter in the game after taking a break.

[Baseball_North]

Well it's not really my method, because I was playing in the game, not umpiring in it.

But.... you know in the rule book where it shows examples of batting out of order? Where it says the batting order is: Able, Baker, Charles, Daniel, etc....

The use the names there.... maybe it is just for simplicity, but I can't think of anywhere in the rule book where it specifies if it is batting out of turn if the wrong player comes to bat, or the wrong number on the players back.

[JRutledge]

I think common sense must rule. I think mostly you should go by the name when it comes down to it. The numbers can often be wrong, with jersey changes or not matching up with the proper person on the substitution list.

I think the bottom line is that when you notice a mistake on a line up card, you should not nitpick it. This is not basketball, where everything has to be perfect on the scorecard and there is a defined penalty for each mistake. I would just figure out what the problem was and fix it. I have had times where the lineups were typed and someone changed a number during the season or someone got moved to another level or became healed from an injury.

Just make sure at the start of the game that you have the right number of players in the batting order. Make sure you know who the DH is batting for. Outside of that, keep it simple.

Peace

[tornado]

Names are necessary; numbers are a courtesy.

[jumpmaster]

You go by the name not the number.

Didn't this rule come about because back in the day, players did not wear numbers?

[nine01c]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Also, wouldn't it be too late for them to complain, if I pinch-hit and completed my at bat?

OBR
It wouldn't be too late to complain (had you actually BOO)
until a pitch had been delivered to the next batter (of either team), or until a play or attempted play had occured (like a pick-off attempt). Defense can appeal BOO if neither of these has occured before the appeal.

Remember, if BOO is recognized before an at bat is complete, the proper batter can then replace the improper batter and resume with whatever the count is.

[Baseball_North]

Originally posted by nine01c

OBR
It wouldn't be too late to complain (had you actually BOO)
until a pitch had been delivered to the next batter (of either team), or until a play or attempted play had occured (like a pick-off attempt). Defense can appeal BOO if neither of these has occured before the appeal.

Remember, if BOO is recognized before an at bat is complete, the proper batter can then replace the improper batter and resume with whatever the count is.

Thanks for the reply, but I realize that.

I was saying wouldn't it be too late because the batter that would have BOO already completed his at-bat, and I had pinch-hit and completed my at bat. After the first pitch I took, the BOO would have been nullified.

I wasn't BOO, the visiting team was arguing that the batter BEFORE me was BOO.

[WindyCityBlue]

This is a sh*t call on the coach's part, but now we're here...Play on and explain to the defensive coach that you appreciate his vigilance, but the fact is that the guy is a pinch hitter batting FOR THE 8th BATTER IN THE ORDER. He reported, batted and the number nine batter was not allowed an at bat, so how was he out of order???

OBR says that the batter must appear in the order his name appears...TRUE

but, the uniform must contain a number only - names are the bonus here.

and, we know that deception wasn't the basis for this error, so we correct the matter. The intent of this rule was to prevent a team from batting in whatever order they chose - this was not the case here. Our job is to interpret the rules and apply them.

Finally, since most of our house and school leagues have a communicable disease policy (no blood on the uniform), a player can exchange jerseys and continue to play. The umpires kicked this one...

[LDUB]

Originally posted by LDUB

You should be going by the number, the name just an extra way of identifying the player.

But why was this not noticed at the plate confrence before the game? This is why you look over the linup cards.

Yeah I knew that one, I put it backwards. The original post said that the names were out of place on the original lineup card. Now isn't that the one the umpire has in his pocket? How would the manager know that the numbers were backwars on the card in the umpire's pocket? Something is missing here.

[WindyCityBlue]

Read my previous post...

he was batting for the spot in the order - since the last batter was legal and the next did not get an opportunity to bat, it doesn't matter. He was an announced substitute batting properly.

[His High Holiness]

All;

With all of the confusion about numbers, I am reminded of a situation that occurred in a Legion program about 10 years ago.

A nearby Legion team had only two black players on it and they were both the same height and build. (They were not related.) To a white person not paying attention, they could have been twins. To a black person paying attention, they were not at all alike. Both played outfield so the other team never had any reason to notice them up close except when they were batting.

One of them was the best hitter on the team and the other, although a starter, was close to the bottom in terms of batting average. The poor hitter was also a relief pitcher when not riding the bench or playing outfield.

The coach batted the best hitter fourth in the lineup and the other guy was 8th or 9th. In critical situations where the the weaker hitter was due up, he would have them switch jerseys. If the weaker black player was on the bench that day, he would "enter" the stronger black player with the weaker's jersey number. That way, he could bat the slugger twice in the lineup. No one caught on, not the umpires, not the coaches, and not the players. 90+ percent of the players and coaches were white or Asian in the Legion program where they played.

Near the end of the season, the coach tried this trick with a team that had a black assistant coach. Dumb move. That coach caught on right away but could not convince the umpires. Both players lied about their names. The team backed them up so the umpires played on. Players don't carry drivers licenses on the field.

Later on, an investigation showed that the whole team had been involved with this chirade from the beginning of the season. They would gather in a group in the dugout to shield the two players changing uniform jersies.

I don't remember exactly how this was handled but the coach did not return the next year. I wonder what part of the Legion pledge that he was upholding when he thought up this scheme.

Peter

[DG]

I don't know how I would discover this at the plate conference. I am checking for 9 players, numbers not duplicated, pitcher identified, and if there is a DH permitted, who is he batting for. If two player's numbers are transposed near the bottom of the lineup, how am I supposed to know that? The names define the order.

It is the bottom of the 7th before this comes up and it comes up after a pinch hitter bats? The numbers have been reversed for 7 innings and nothing said? This should have brought up by the defense the first time the these batters batted in succession. Also, how can you have BOO after a pinch hitter bats? He is batting for whomever is up. And if you are going to have BOO the defense needs to bring this up before they all leave the field. Multiple SNAFU's, IMO.