Defensive conference in OBR?

[bigwes68]

OBR refers to "trips to the mound" but does not mention defensive conferences, as in FED rules. I was wondering how this was handled.

Example: Cal Ripken game, played under modified OBR. Manager has already gone to the mound once in the inning. Fly ball to right field, 9-year-old kid drops it, then holds the ball as 50 people scream at him; he's terrified and has no idea what to do. Manager calls time and walks out to right field to chew out the kid (which I think is horrible in the first place). He says, "I'm not going to the pitcher." Since I'd already had two rounds with him in the game and he was losing pretty badly, I decided I'd let him go and not make him remove the pitcher, simply b/c I didn't want another argument and one more run by the other team would end the game.

So: Can a coach, under OBR, call time to go talk to a defensive player and not have it count as a visit to the mound? I know that under FED, it would count toward his "defensive conferences" and after the third one, he would have to remove the pitcher. But how is this applied to OBR?

(By the way, the father of the kid the coach chewed out in right field wanted to fight with the coach after the game. I imagine I would have, too.)

[akalsey]

8.06 implies that the coach can visit other players as long as those other players don't procede to talk to the pitcher.

If the manager or coach goes to the catcher or infielder and that player then goes to the mound or the pitcher comes to him at his position before there is an intervening play (a pitch or other play) that will be the same as the manager or coach going to the mound.

Did he call time while the player was still holding the ball? That's a no-no.

[DG]

Originally posted by bigwes68
OBR refers to "trips to the mound" but does not mention defensive conferences, as in FED rules. I was wondering how this was handled.

Example: Cal Ripken game, played under modified OBR. Manager has already gone to the mound once in the inning. Fly ball to right field, 9-year-old kid drops it, then holds the ball as 50 people scream at him; he's terrified and has no idea what to do. Manager calls time and walks out to right field to chew out the kid (which I think is horrible in the first place). He says, "I'm not going to the pitcher." Since I'd already had two rounds with him in the game and he was losing pretty badly, I decided I'd let him go and not make him remove the pitcher, simply b/c I didn't want another argument and one more run by the other team would end the game.

So: Can a coach, under OBR, call time to go talk to a defensive player and not have it count as a visit to the mound? I know that under FED, it would count toward his "defensive conferences" and after the third one, he would have to remove the pitcher. But how is this applied to OBR?

(By the way, the father of the kid the coach chewed out in right field wanted to fight with the coach after the game. I imagine I would have, too.)

Call time, to go to RF to chew out a 9 year old. What a sh*t*ss. I don't think Cal Ripken (the man, not the league) would approve of the coach's actions, and I don't either. If I can't get him with 4.06(a)(1) (he is clearly inciting a demonstration, in my judgement) I will get him with 9.01(c), but bet your butt he's gone regardless. I can hear the cheers now, from the fans of this team, as they have no doubt had to deal with this guy already.

[akalsey]

Yes he's being an a$$ and isn't fit to coach children, but that's the BoD responsibility, not mine as an ump.

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by akalsey
Yes he's being an a$$ and isn't fit to coach children, but that's the BoD responsibility, not mine as an ump.

I agree that the guy isn't fit to coach children. He's got two of his own on that team, and they fight with each other all the time. And I mean literally. The other night, one of them went up to the other one and pushed him over after he dropped a ball on a play at the plate.

And what did the coach do? Not a dadgum thing. But he constantly sits there and yells at the other kids. I can't stand him, and I'm so glad his team lost the league championship, that way he doesn't get to coach the All-Star team in the tournament.

[sir_eldren]

Originally posted by akalsey
Yes he's being an a$$ and isn't fit to coach children, but that's the BoD responsibility, not mine as an ump.

No, it's everybody's responsibility to protect the children. If you, the man in charge of the game, won't do something, who will? If you, the man who saw the action occur, did not feel it was harsh enough to eject the coach, then why should the BoD?

Protect the children.

-Craig

[akalsey]

He's got two of his own on that team, and they fight with each other all the time.

That sounds like my two boys. And one of them ended up benched for the rest of the game and the entire next game.

If you, the man who saw the action occur, did not feel it was harsh enough to eject the coach, then why should the BoD?

It sounds like the ump at the field didn't feel that the coach should have been ejected. The "chewing out" was a side note to his real question. If a coach goes into the field to tell a player where he screwed up, that's different than someone being verbally abusive. Abuse (name calling, threats, belittling) of anyone on my field will send you packing.

A coach shouldn't stop the game and single a player out. That's bad judgement. But doing that once isn't a reason to eject him as long as he was providing instruction. But if the coach is simply a jerk and this is the sort of thing he does regularly, the BoD is in the best position to recognize that and take corrective action.

If a coach does this, count to three and then walk to where he's at. Tell him it's time to get the game going and if he ignores you or gives you attitude, then he's gone.

[DG]

What is a BoD?

By the way, I took him literally. It sounded like a pretty bad chewing out if the dad wanted to whip his butt after the game. I don't think I could allow this to happen. It's bad enough when they holler at a kid in RF, but when you call time to go to RF, you are crossing the line in my book. I imagine the league would frown on the parent whipping the coach's butt, so who else is going to maintain some sanity in this situation?

[akalsey]

Originally posted by DG
What is a BoD?

Board of Directors

[DG]

Originally posted by akalsey

Board of Directors

Thanks, but BoD is irrelevant for this situation. I don't expect they are present and they have no jurisdiction for the game being called. I get rid of him and let BoD deal with it afterwards. If they don't like my ruling then they can ask me to consider changing for future similar instances and then I can tell them what I think of their opinion on this subject.

I would be far more lenient towards a player who drew a line in the sand on me than I would be a coach who calls time to go to RF to chew out a 9 year old.

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by bigwes68

I agree that the guy isn't fit to coach children. He's got two of his own on that team, and they fight with each other all the time. And I mean literally. The other night, one of them went up to the other one and pushed him over after he dropped a ball on a play at the plate.

And what did the coach do? Not a dadgum thing. But he constantly sits there and yells at the other kids. I can't stand him, and I'm so glad his team lost the league championship, that way he doesn't get to coach the All-Star team in the tournament.

Why didn't you eject the shover?

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by bluezebra

Why didn't you eject the shover?

I wanted to, but several reasons I didn't:
1) It was the league championship game.
2) It was a teammate. Had he shoved an opponent, I would have.
3) Both teams were already playing with only 8 players (permissible by local league rules because parents are stupid enough to schedule vacations right in the middle of baseball season, including the championship game) and if I had tossed him, the game would have been over.
3A) It wouldn't have been fair to the other kids on his team that knew how to behave.
4) There were about 300 people there and I didn't have a death wish.

[DG]

Players some time get on each other. I wouldn't dump one for shoving a teammate. I would ask the coach to get this under control, or I will.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by bigwes68
OBR refers to "trips to the mound" but does not mention defensive conferences, as in FED rules. I was wondering how this was handled.

Example: Cal Ripken game, played under modified OBR. Manager has already gone to the mound once in the inning. Fly ball to right field, 9-year-old kid drops it, then holds the ball as 50 people scream at him; he's terrified and has no idea what to do. Manager calls time and walks out to right field to chew out the kid (which I think is horrible in the first place). He says, "I'm not going to the pitcher." Since I'd already had two rounds with him in the game and he was losing pretty badly, I decided I'd let him go and not make him remove the pitcher, simply b/c I didn't want another argument and one more run by the other team would end the game.

So: Can a coach, under OBR, call time to go talk to a defensive player and not have it count as a visit to the mound? I know that under FED, it would count toward his "defensive conferences" and after the third one, he would have to remove the pitcher. But how is this applied to OBR?

So the question still remains. Is the coach required to remove the pitcher? I don't have my rule book, but I would think that he would. The OBR citation about "going to another player and then that player going to the pitcher would be a charged conference" is intended to prevent a circumvention of the conference rule.

My ruling...Pitcher must be removed and coach will probably end up being ejected for running his mouth.

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by jumpmaster

So the question still remains. Is the coach required to remove the pitcher? I don't have my rule book, but I would think that he would. The OBR citation about "going to another player and then that player going to the pitcher would be a charged conference" is intended to prevent a circumvention of the conference rule.

My ruling...Pitcher must be removed and coach will probably end up being ejected for running his mouth.

That's what I would think. But I don't see anything in OBR that covers that situation. So I guess I'd have to 9.01(c) that one.

But the coach wasn't trying to circumvent the conference rule. He was going out to right field, and the right fielder sure as heck wasn't coming to the pitcher.

Still looking for a definitive answer....