2-runners....1 base

[Tim C]

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[Edited by Tim C on Apr 7th, 2004 at 09:29 AM]

[blarson]

[i] why do we have an infield fly rule in we are not making some ruling in anticipation of inevitable actions?
Comments, everyone, please?


[Edited by gumpire on Apr 1st, 2004 at 10:36 PM] [/B]

You are not ruling on the inevitable catch. Your preventing the defense form letting the ball fall untouched and gaining a cheap DP.

Bob

[mcrowder]

5-run homers? 9-run homers?

There's no way, in a situation like this, I'm letting a batter come to the plate. The play is not over. If defense doesn't know what the H is going on, I'm telling the batter not to get into the box. Eventually, something will happen. You can't just call him out, but you can't allow a pitch to occur to a further batter.

To answer your initial question - yes, a tag (or a force at 3rd) is required.

[gumpire]

For the fun of the debate....

2 runners left on 2B makes for an easy double play at 3B. i.e., ball's hit to SS, throw to 3B, tag the base, 2-out!!!!

[gumpire]

Hey, what about OBR Rules 7.09(e) and 7.08(a(2))?
I think both of these would be justification for calling the preceeding runner out.
Comments?

[Rich]

Originally posted by gumpire
Hey, what about OBR Rules 7.09(e) and 7.08(a(2))?
I think both of these would be justification for calling the preceeding runner out.
Comments?

7.09(e) doesn't refer to baserunners, but to non-participating members of the offensive team.

Regarding 7.08a2: How does a runner leave the baseline in this situation?

Why can't you simply accept what you've heard rather than trying to justify what you'd LIKE to be correct?

[gumpire]

[/B][/QUOTE]

7.09(e) doesn't refer to baserunners, but to non-participating members of the offensive team.

Regarding 7.08a2: How does a runner leave the baseline in this situation?

Why can't you simply accept what you've heard rather than trying to justify what you'd LIKE to be correct? [/B][/QUOTE]

Where does 7.09(e) refer to "non-participating members..."?
I'll post it here for you all to read....then, if you still have questions, please let me know.

Rule 7.09(e): "ANY MEMBER or members of the offensive team stand or gather around any base to which a runner is advancing, to confuse, hinder or add to the difficulty of the fielders. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate or teammates."

and as far as 7.08(a(2)), it discusses "abandoning his effort to touch the next base"....I think strating on 2B, with no movement (or even apparent knowledge that you are forced to) towards 3B, meets that definition at some point.

A big part of the issue I'm having, is that I have not heard anyone be able to tell me their justification for the runner NOT being out, while I've given several possible scenarios where he IS out.


[Edited by gumpire on Apr 6th, 2004 at 04:17 PM]

[Rich]

Originally posted by gumpire

7.09(e) doesn't refer to baserunners, but to non-participating members of the offensive team.

Regarding 7.08a2: How does a runner leave the baseline in this situation?

Why can't you simply accept what you've heard rather than trying to justify what you'd LIKE to be correct? [/B][/QUOTE]

Where does 7.09(e) refer to "non-participating members..."?
I'll post it here for you all to read....then, if you still have questions, please let me know.

Rule 7.09(e): "ANY MEMBER or members of the offensive team stand or gather around any base to which a runner is advancing, to confuse, hinder or add to the difficulty of the fielders. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate or teammates."

and as far as 7.08(a(2)), it discusses "abandoning his effort to touch the next base"....I think strating on 2B, with no movement (or even apparent knowledge that you are forced to) towards 3B, meets that definition at some point.

A big part of the issue I'm having, is that I have not heard anyone be able to tell me their justification for the runner NOT being out, while I've given several possible scenarios where he IS out.


[Edited by gumpire on Apr 6th, 2004 at 04:17 PM] [/B][/QUOTE]

It means what I said it means. People smarter than me have interpreted the rules and made these decisions. Call what you want to call. I'm done trying to help you. BTW, you left out the part about leaving the baseline in 7.08a2.

[gumpire]

It means what I said it means. People smarter than me have interpreted the rules and made these decisions. Call what you want to call. I'm done trying to help you. BTW, you left out the part about leaving the baseline in 7.08a2. [/B]

So how are you related to Alexander Cartwright, Rich?
I don't know who YOU are (Commisioner of Baseball, President of Little League, Umpire-In-Chief for North America, Alexander Cartwright reincarnate, etc.)so why should I accept it means what you say it means and not what I say it means? Give me some reference, that's all I ask.

Leaving the baseline is not the point of the rule. The point is abandonning the effort to touch the next base. I think all will agree, that is the spirit of the rule. Since rules don't cover all conceivablities, we have to make decissions based upon "the spirit of the rule".

[Edited by gumpire on Apr 6th, 2004 at 05:31 PM]

[Rich Ives]

7.08 Any runner is out when_
a) 2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

Just what part of "leaves the baseline" is so hard to understand?

BTW, any runner on 2B HAS touched first base.

[gumpire]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
7.08 Any runner is out when_
a) 2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

Just what part of "leaves the baseline" is so hard to understand?

BTW, any runner on 2B HAS touched first base.

READ THE WHOLE THING:
2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base; Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the baseline heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases. Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner. This rule also covers the following and similar plays: Less than two out, score tied last of ninth inning, runner on first, batter hits a ball out of park for winning run, the runner on first passes second and thinking the home run automatically wins the game, cuts across diamond toward his bench as batter runner circles bases. In this case, the base runner would be called out "for abandoning his effort to touch the next base" and batter runner permitted to continue around bases to make his home run valid. If there are two out, home run would not count (see Rule 7.12). This is not an appeal play. PLAY. Runner believing he is called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases. In the above two plays the runners are CONSIDERED actually abandoning their base paths and are treated differently than the batter who struck out as described.

I read that, that you don't necessarily have to leave the base path...also, the prerequisite here is the UMPIRE may judge the act to be considered abandoning.

And finally, OBR 9.01(c) gives "Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules." So, until someone tells me where it's "specifically covered" in the rules....I stand behind my decision.

Everyones got an opinion...who has something to back it up?



[Edited by gumpire on Apr 6th, 2004 at 08:30 PM]

[Rich Ives]

read that, that you don't necessarily have to leave the base path...

Then you need an English language course and we're outa here.

Have fun at the protest committee meetings.

[gumpire]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
read that, that you don't necessarily have to leave the base path...

Then you need an English language course and we're outa here.

Have fun at the protest committee meetings.

"outa" is excellent English...do you have a degree? Or do you just choose to ignore everything except a way to try to put someone down?

You are the biggest culprit in sharing your opinion with NO supporting facts. When you can provide some, please feel free to rejoin the conversation.

[gumpire]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
7.08 Any runner is out when_
a) 2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

Just what part of "leaves the baseline" is so hard to understand?

BTW, any runner on 2B HAS touched first base.

If everything is to be taken so literally, this runner was not supposed to be touching first base, he had already done that and was touching second, supposed to be going to 3B, English major!

[gumpire]

Originally posted by gumpire
OBR 9.01(c) gives "Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules." [/B]

Maybe you can tell me what part of this rule is so hard for all of you understand?