runner foot position in LL

[parrothead]

Because in LL you cant lead off, I have often had my runners take the fastpitch softball approach to running, sort of like getting ready to run a race, left foot on the bag, right foot back/side with the idea that the right foot starts forward right as the ball is reaching the batter and you can actually start moving while still attached to bag.

Anyhow in game last week, I think my runner at first base had his right foot in foul territory, left foot on the bag and umpire instructed that both feet must be in play and it was no biggie, didnt say anything, but I got to thinking after the game, when you think at 3B, all runners take their lead in foul territory, so I was a little puzzled, but just curious what the rule is.

[Rich Ives]

Ump was wrong.

He may be confusing this with the can't start from behind the bag on a tag-up rule.

That said you risk having an umpire see the motion and think he's left the bag when he really hasn't.

[Mountaincoach]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

That said you risk having an umpire see the motion and think he's left the bag when he really hasn't.

Yep. Been there. Done that. I'm a softball coach. We literally have two different base running strategies depending on where we're playing and how experienced the umpires may be.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Ump was wrong.

He may be confusing this with the can't start from behind the bag on a tag-up rule.

That said you risk having an umpire see the motion and think he's left the bag when he really hasn't.

Yep that is a great point and we actually had that issue (same in softball too, its actually where I got it from in coaching my daughters team, when my son started playing LL, I thought it made sense in that setting)

One follow up to when you leave, one of the misunderstood rules too and I have actually had to talk to umps on this is that a lot of coaches and even some umps think its when ball crosses plate, but its actually its crosses batter, which I often though what if batter moved out of the box up front to allow the runner a few extra steps, is that a violation? (obviously if he hit the ball out of the box he is out)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Yep that is a great point and we actually had that issue (same in softball too, its actually where I got it from in coaching my daughters team, when my son started playing LL, I thought it made sense in that setting)

One follow up to when you leave, one of the misunderstood rules too and I have actually had to talk to umps on this is that a lot of coaches and even some umps think its when ball crosses plate, but its actually its crosses batter, which I often though what if batter moved out of the box up front to allow the runner a few extra steps, is that a violation? (obviously if he hit the ball out of the box he is out)

Actually it's when it reaches the batter, not crosses the batter. IOW when it becomes hitable.

By moving the batter up three feet you'be buying the runner about .05 seconds, not a few extra steps.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by parrothead

what if batter moved out of the box up front to allow the runner a few extra steps, is that a violation? (obviously if he hit the ball out of the box he is out)

A fine example of what's wrong with youth sports today.

Teach the kids the fundamentals, but also the right way to play the game. Quit focusing so much on getting an advantage not intended by the rules.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by CT1

A fine example of what's wrong with youth sports today.

Teach the kids the fundamentals, but also the right way to play the game. Quit focusing so much on getting an advantage not intended by the rules.

Fair point if someone were actually to do it, my question was more for just pointing out some of the flaws in how LL sets up the rules of stealing, no leads, ball reaches a point that can move, etc.

I would say however that one of the "fundamentals" of stealing bases is the role that the batter plays and how often their actions can be the determining factor as to whether or not the steal is a success or failure. The Shade take, the swing through, the bottom line is on a steal often times the batter has a job to do to assist the steal. So while this is "extreme" and kind of weird question, one of the fundamentals of the game is usually the batter giving up a pitch, be it through swing through, take, etc to assist the runner to steal the base. To be honest, on a LL steal that might be the only "fundamental" other than the slide which translates to later in the game, because its surely not the one way lead anchor yourself to the base watch where the ball crosses the batter for your jump nevermind the pitcher who is throwing from the windup because that is exclusive to LL and will go away after your 11.

I think one of the issues is that a lot of people know just enough to teach "a little" and I think this play, the steal, in particular the fake bunt steal is a great example. I see so many batters, both in youth baseball and youth fastpitch do the fake bunk when the runner is stealing, but they do it mid or front of the box and they allow the catcher to really start to creep, get on their toes and gain ground. Batters think they are distracting the catchers but 90% of them are actually doing the C a favor. Instead they should do that back of the box to keep the catchers back and often times catching the ball on their heals.

Speaking of not intended by the rules, one of my major objections is with courtesy runners, the intention was a speed up rule, matter of fact we had it in our JV league in HS but only for C and only with 2 outs. Now its totally out of control.

* Its for P and C regardless of outs.
* In many of the tournaments, its for the current P and C, so if your going to put in a new catcher, that player cant be run for but the C or P who just pitched and caught who are not going to P or C the next inning, they can be run for? How does that speed up the game.

Its totally missed the mark on the origins of the rule, which was a speed up the game let their C get gear on rule, not a strategic advantage rule.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Fair point if someone were actually to do it, my question was more for just pointing out some of the flaws in how LL sets up the rules of stealing, no leads, ball reaches a point that can move, etc.

I would say however that one of the "fundamentals" of stealing bases is the role that the batter plays and how often their actions can be the determining factor as to whether or not the steal is a success or failure. The Shade take, the swing through, the bottom line is on a steal often times the batter has a job to do to assist the steal. So while this is "extreme" and kind of weird question, one of the fundamentals of the game is usually the batter giving up a pitch, be it through swing through, take, etc to assist the runner to steal the base. To be honest, on a LL steal that might be the only "fundamental" other than the slide which translates to later in the game, because its surely not the one way lead anchor yourself to the base watch where the ball crosses the batter for your jump nevermind the pitcher who is throwing from the windup because that is exclusive to LL and will go away after your 11.

I think one of the issues is that a lot of people know just enough to teach "a little" and I think this play, the steal, in particular the fake bunt steal is a great example. I see so many batters, both in youth baseball and youth fastpitch do the fake bunk when the runner is stealing, but they do it mid or front of the box and they allow the catcher to really start to creep, get on their toes and gain ground. Batters think they are distracting the catchers but 90% of them are actually doing the C a favor. Instead they should do that back of the box to keep the catchers back and often times catching the ball on their heals.

Speaking of not intended by the rules, one of my major objections is with courtesy runners, the intention was a speed up rule, matter of fact we had it in our JV league in HS but only for C and only with 2 outs. Now its totally out of control.

* Its for P and C regardless of outs.
* In many of the tournaments, its for the current P and C, so if your going to put in a new catcher, that player cant be run for but the C or P who just pitched and caught who are not going to P or C the next inning, they can be run for? How does that speed up the game.

Its totally missed the mark on the origins of the rule, which was a speed up the game let their C get gear on rule, not a strategic advantage rule.

You are trying to apply too high a level play to Kids 12 and under. Don't. Just get the basics.

There are no courtesy runners in LL.

[parrothead]

Weird one on many levels, happened at tourney with a team just one up from our level, runner at 3rd, kid wind up is really really slow, coach forgets how many strikes there are and has the kid do a straight steal of home with 2 strikes, he actually slid in as ball crossed over before ball being caught, which was called the 3rd strike and the 3rd out of the inning.

Coach argues he crossed before ball caught, umpires give it to him, but it was protested and ultimately the run came off.

Tournament playing OBR

[Rich Ives]

The protest result is the proper result if that's the point.

[illinoisbluezeb]

Or the ump was confusing runner with the defense having to both feet in fair territory

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

Or the ump was confusing runner with the defense having to both feet in fair territory

That's the OBR rule -- but it's only enforced when one team complains (and then it's enforce for both teams). In FED and NCAA, one foot suffices.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

He may be confusing this with the can't start from behind the bag on a tag-up rule.

If the runner is in contact with the bag, he hasn't started from behind the bag.

I do agree that the ump in the OP was confused about something.