Set Position, Pivot Foot Not Entirely in Front of Plate

[JohnDorian37]

RH pitcher in the set position, contacts the plate with the heel of his pivot foot (about 1/3 of the foot) outside the plane of the plate toward the first base side.

6-1-3 is unclear (shocker) to me on this but 6.1.3 A seems to be pretty resolute that this is illegal, and that the pivot foot must be entirely in front (and not outside of) the plate.

could be i'm misunderstanding this--if so, let me know. if not, at what point is this called a balk. when he first comes in contact and takes the sign? when he comes set after the stretch? when he starts the delivery?

another question on 6-1-3. my reading is that it is perfectly legal for a pitcher, while in the stretch and prior to coming set, to turn and fire to first (for example) on a pickoff play and there's no need for him to come set first once he starts the stretch. but i want to be sure i'm not getting this wrong, either.

thanks, gents.

[UmpJM]

John,

Your reading is entirely accurate on your first question (pivot foot entirely in contact with the rubber). Were I taking a FED test, I would adhere to the strict wording "strictly".

However, in the real world, it's not quite that simple. It is customary to allow the pitcher "some" latitude, and I would consider 2/3's of his foot "in contact" pretty much within the tolerance. The bigger the "hole" in front of the rubber, the more "tolerance" I'm going to have.

If you judge the pitcher is "stretching" the tolerance, call "TIME" and instruct him to adjust his position rather than allowing him to initiate his delivery and calling a balk.

That's what I'd do.

On your second question, it is perfectly legal for a pitcher to make a pick-off throw without first having come to a discernible stop. See 6.1.3H.

JM

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

On your second question, it is perfectly legal for a pitcher to make a pick-off throw without first having come to a discernible stop. See 6.1.3H.

JM

We had a coach that wanted to argue this last weekend. Even after the UIC pointed out the rule in the book. He's a jack@$$ and will generally get a "learn SOME of the rules" in on you somewhere. I forgot he was there on Sunday until I heard those exact words as we left the field. He thinks he knows, and assumes you don't because it conflicts with what he "knows."

I'll get him before the season's over - just for the sake of dumping him.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

... He's a jack@$$ and will generally get a "learn SOME of the rules" in on you somewhere. ...

Darien,

I assure you that, were I the umpire, that would be his last act as a participant in the game.

You shoulda' dumped him as you left the field without even breaking stride.

JM

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Darien,

I assure you that, were I the umpire, that would be his last act as a participant in the game.

You shoulda' dumped him as you left the field without even breaking stride.

JM

They were going home - wouldn't have given me the same warm fuzzy feeling.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

They were going home - wouldn't have given me the same warm fuzzy feeling.

Unless you were scheduled on his next game and had the pleasure of not seeing him there.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Unless you were scheduled on his next game and had the pleasure of not seeing him there.

There was no next game - Championship bracket, they lost - (IE - they're going home).

EJ wouldn't carry over to the next tourney for hiim to sit out the "next" game.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

...

EJ wouldn't carry over to the next tourney for hiim to sit out the "next" game.

Darien,

Are you sure?

Cuz when I dumped an AC who thought he was entitled to a "free shot" after his team had just been eliminated from a USSSA tourney last summer as my partner and I were leaving the field, he was, in fact, required by (the same) TD to "sit out" the first game of the next U-Trip tourney his team was playing in a couple of weeks later.

I understand he was quite "surprised". He also looked kinda' surprised when I showed up to call one of their early round games a couple of games later. Didn't hear "Jack" out of him the whole game. Go figure.

Always do your job.

JM

[JJ]

Whether he has to sit out a game or not, I'd have dumped him anyway. I'd have written the report and made sure it got sent to my assignor and HIS superiors. Word gets around, and if he thought he could get a "free shot" with no followup, he would have been mistaken. Plus, I'd have felt better.

JJ

[DG]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Darien,

I assure you that, were I the umpire, that would be his last act as a participant in the game.

You shoulda' dumped him as you left the field without even breaking stride.

JM

"You making all this money, you should learn the rules" were the last words said to me by a coach, in a game his team had a huge lead in. He had his back turned to me and was walking away at the time. This lead to a brohaha, that ended up with me dumping 4 players in the next 30 seconds, including his son, F1, who was next to be dumped, followed by F5, and F6 and finally by another player, I know not what position, who ran up behind me mouthing something, and when I turned around I ejected him for being there. I don't have a clue what he said. This game was one of two forfeits I have ever been involved in. This was a 15-17 year old summer rec league game.