Scoring Questions

[Benchcoach]

No outs R1 on second base. Hit and Run play on. Batter grounds back to F1. F1decides he can get R1 going to 3rd but throws wild. R1 scores and batter advances to second base. Batter ultimately scores later in the inning.

Q1: Is batter credited with an RBI?
Q2: Is run scored by batter Earned or Unearned?

[jTheUmp]

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll get an answer to your questions here... those of us who umpire generally don't spend much (or, in my case, ANY) time reading the rules governing scoring decisions (ie, Rule 9).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Benchcoach

No outs R1 on second base. Hit and Run play on. Batter grounds back to F1. F1decides he can get R1 going to 3rd but throws wild. R1 scores and batter advances to second base. Batter ultimately scores later in the inning.

Q1: Is batter credited with an RBI?
Q2: Is run scored by batter Earned or Unearned?

Just some guesses from the days when I did pay a bit of attention to this:

1) No RBI. FC+Error.

2) Without the error, BR would have been at first and there would have been one out. Would he have scored from first before three would have been out?

[Benchcoach]

Assuming Batter would have score from first base ie. back to back hits following play described in post. What I am trying to ascertain is if a batter becomes a runner as a result of an error on the pitcher is the run still Unearned?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Benchcoach

Assuming Batter would have score from first base ie. back to back hits following play described in post. What I am trying to ascertain is if a batter becomes a runner as a result of an error on the pitcher is the run still Unearned?

No to this question but that's not what happened in the OP. In the OP, the batter became a runner as a result of the FC by the pitcher (IOW, with no error, R2 would have been out, but BR would still have been at first)

[Benchcoach]

Thanks for the reply Bob. Decided I should just look it up myself. For those interested.... Even though a batter/runner scoring as a result of wild pitch is scored as earned (even true in the case of a wild pitch 3rd strike) an error by the pitcher acting as a fielder that ultimately results in the batter/runner scoring is scored Unearned. See OBR 10.16(a)&(e).

After reading Rule 10 a good rule of thumb seems to be that if the run scored as a result of something done or not done by the pitcher (including merely pitching the ball) while in contact with the pitcher's plate the run is Earned, unless of course the run ultimately scored as a result of another fielder prolonging the inning. If the pitcher acting as fielder commits the error it would be scored the same as any other fielder.

[CT1]

Bob's right. Reconstruct the inning without the error & determine if a runner would have scored anyway. If there's doubt, it's resolved in favor of the pitcher.

Another "rule of thumb": Any B/R who reaches as the result of an error and later scores is unearned. With two out, if an error prolongs the inning, no further runs are earned.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by CT1

Bob's right. Reconstruct the inning without the error & determine if a runner would have scored anyway. If there's doubt, it's resolved in favor of the pitcher.

Another "rule of thumb": Any B/R who reaches as the result of an error and later scores is unearned. With two out, if an error prolongs the inning, no further runs are earned.

Agree with this, but with one addition. Regardless of when the error occurs, if changing the error to an out results in 3 outs for the inning, no further earned runs can be credited to the pitcher. This is assuming the error prevented an out from being made and wasn't an error that simply allowed a runner to advance an additional base.

Examples:
1. With 2 outs, Charlie reaches 1st based because of an error. Daniel hits a home run. Both runs are unearned.
2. With 0 outs, Abel reaches 1st base because of an error. Baker and Charlie both strike out. Daniel hits a home run. Both runs are unearned.
3. With 2 outs, Charlie reaches 1st base on a play ruled a single by the scorer but is awarded 2nd when the throw by the shortstop enters the dugout. Daniel hits a home run. Both runs are earned as the error was not considered to have prevented what would have been the 3rd out.

The exception to this is the missed opportunity to make an out due to an error does not carry over to a new pitcher should there be a substitution for the pitcher.

Example: With 2 outs and Peter pitching, Charlie reaches first base due to an error. Peter is replaced by Roger. Daniel hits a home run. Individually Peter is credited with an unearned run and Roger is credited with an earned run, but the team is credited with 2 unearned runs.

Going back to the original situation:

1. No RBI - I can't imagine a scenario where the runner scores without the aid of the error.
2. Not enough information to determine earned vs. unearned run. It depends on whether or not the scorer felt the runner would have been out absent the wild throw. If the scorer rules he would have been out, then the run is unearned. If the scorer rules runner would have been safe regardless of the throw and the wild throw only allowed the runner to score, it is still possible that he run could be earned or unearned. Without the error, the runner would have remained on 3rd base and the progression of the rest of the inning would be needed to determine the status of the run. The fact that the batter runner eventually scored does not help as future errors could prolong the inning. For example, 2 infield pop ups result in 2 outs made but an error occurs on a fly ball that is dropped that would have allowed the runner to score. This is unearned. If, however, the first batter after the original play hits a single, then the run would be earned.

Other than a few hard and fast rules, the key is to figuring out earned vs unearned is to assess what would have happened if the error had not occurred with normal effort and then reconstruct the inning as though the error didn't occur. There are many nuances and intricacies, including the official scorer's judgement, that go into determining earned vs. unearned, but using many of the general rules already posted, you'll get to the right conclusion.