Walk-Off, I think

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by umpjim

So when, with 1 out, with bases loaded, a ground ball is hit to F5 and due to convenience, he steps on 3B and throws to the closest base for the force at 2B the runner from third scores because he and the BR touched their proper bases?

No.

When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in
the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other
play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire
shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has
touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.

Once F5 touches 3B R3 is no longer forced. It then reverts to the normal "run can't score when" exceptions.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

No.

When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in
the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other
play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire
shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has
touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.

Once F5 touches 3B R3 is no longer forced. It then reverts to the normal "run can't score when" exceptions.

So in the OP, the outfielder without security guard interference could not run down the ball and throw to 3B for a force on a runner who did not advance?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by umpjim

So in the OP, the outfielder without security guard interference could not run down the ball and throw to 3B for a force on a runner who did not advance?

Correct.

Note the penalty in 5.08 (4.09):

PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to
and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire
shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and
order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner
refuses to advance to and touch first base, the
umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending
player, and order the game resumed. If, before two are
out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch
first base, the run shall count, but the offending player
shall be called out.


In this play, the only runner that needed to touch his base was the R3 touching home to score the run. The BR didn't even need to advance to first since there were less than two outs.

This is different from Fed, which requires all runners to touch (9-1-1 Note 2).

That video needs a "raving lunatic commentator" label on it.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Correct.

Note the penalty in 5.08 (4.09):

PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to
and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire
shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and
order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner
refuses to advance to and touch first base, the
umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending
player, and order the game resumed. If, before two are
out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch
first base, the run shall count, but the offending player
shall be called out.

Wendelstedt says the when the ball is batted all runners must touch their advance bases. 5.08 (4.09) only apply to awarded bases. BRD says that rule only applies when runners are not in peril of being call out.

Wendelstedt says that when a batted ball is put into play all runners must touch their advance base. 5.08 (4.09) only applies to awarded bases. The BRD says that that rule applies only when runners are not in peril of being called out.


In this play, the only runner that needed to touch his base was the R3 touching home to score the run. The BR didn't even need to advance to first since there were less than two outs.

This is different from Fed, which requires all runners to touch (9-1-1 Note 2).

That video needs a "raving lunatic commentator" label on it.

Wendelstedt says that when the ball is batted all forced runners must touch their advance base. 5.08 (4.09) only apply for walks and HBP. BRD says the rule does not apply when runners are in peril of being called out.

[Welpe]

Please post citations from both.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Please post citations from both.

I don't have a current BRD but a poster on another site quoted this from the BRD:

"In such a game-ending situation, where runners advance without peril of an out, only the runner from third and the batter-runner are required to advance and touch the next base (4.09b). - page 36."

My 2010 WUM on page 81 has this:

"This requirement for only the runner from third and the batter-runner to advance to their bases, only applies in this situation. With bases full, if runners are forced to advance by reason of the batter putting the ball in play, or because of an uncaught third strike, all runners will be required to advance and touch their next base in order for the game to be ended. If they do not advance to their next bases before defense puts them out...for the third out, no runs will score."

The first sentence refers the situation of a winning run walked in or by HBP.

Whether the current PBUC umpire school agrees with Wendelstedt and whether Wendelstedt still teaches it I don't know.