SC vs Mich

[tcannizzo]

How can you get a chain measurement wrong?
Why not allow a challenge?
Clowney served up justice.
Amazing!

[CT1]

Good question.

The position the R took to view the measurement was behind the ball, so he may have thought the nose touched the front stake. Had he looked at it from a 90 degree angle, as the TV camera did, he probably would have ruled differently.

My question is: Why didn't the official holding the ball (SJ?) say something to the R and "save" the crew?

[HLin NC]

Depending on a particular white hat's philosophy/demeanor/comportment, sometimes you can't save someone from themselves.

I've no idea in this particular case.

[JRutledge]

First of all I am not convinced he was wrong. There is one guy standing right near the ball which he can see or has some perspective and he probably communicated to the Referee where the ball was.

Secondly they did allow a challenge. There was no video evidence that showed they were wrong. All the angles did not show much as to the perspective to change the call. I did initially think the spot was short and the wing gave a better spot than I thought he should have. But after that, I am not sure the spot was necessarily short when you stand over the ball at the proper angle.

Peace

[maven]

First, he was wrong. Everyone except some Michigan fans knows this.

Second, Spurrier challenged the spot, not the ruling that the ball was past the LTG (which cannot be challenged). The challenge failed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by maven

First, he was wrong. Everyone except some Michigan fans knows this.

Second, Spurrier challenged the spot, not the ruling that the ball was past the LTG (which cannot be challenged). The challenge failed.

He was wrong how? Because you saw an angle not down the line? I am the person that holds the ball on my high school crew and there is a lot of communication going on with that person and the Referee. The Referee does not make the decision alone at least in my experience. I would suspect the official with the ball communicated what he thought the spot got to the stick and the Referee signaled what he was told as it was close. It only caused an issue because Spurrier was standing there and had an interest in the outcome. I love how they made a big deal out of this while not showing a direct shot down the line, which I can assume they did not have based on all the people in the way. It is similar to what they do not have on many goal line plays to determine if someone broke the plane while the ball is above the goal line.

And the spot was challenged, not the measurement. Actually they cannot challenge the measurement, they can challenge the spot of the wing, which was not in my opinion give a very good spot in the first place. I do not think the spot was that close based on what I saw live and where he marked the ball. I think he gave him about a half a yard more, but the review could not conclude either way well enough. Those things are not overturned anyway unless it is obvious they were clearly short or clearly beyond (heard that from a Big Ten Official I worked with this season). I would have been totally OK if they did not get the first down on that issue alone.

Peace

[JasonTX]

There were at least two different camera views. Both of them clearly showed the ball was at least 2 inches short of the first down post. One of the officials has apparently acknowledged that the ball was short according to some post game interviews with Spurrier. The official apparently was asked why the R called it a first down and this official was not sure as he saw it was short.

[BktBallRef]

I know one thing. Clowney knocked the HELL out of the Mich. RB. WOW!!!!

That kid is a beast!!

BTW, a 3 year old would have no trouble seeing it wasn't a 1st down.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

There were at least two different camera views. Both of them clearly showed the ball was at least 2 inches short of the first down post. One of the officials has apparently acknowledged that the ball was short according to some post game interviews with Spurrier. The official apparently was asked why the R called it a first down and this official was not sure as he saw it was short.

Never trust the coach's account of his discussion with an unnamed official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Never trust the coach's account of his discussion with an unnamed official.

Exactly.

Peace

[CT1]

I would suspect the official with the ball communicated what he thought the spot got to the stick and the Referee signaled what he was told as it was close.

You're kidding, right? I've been a white hat for well over 20 years. In all that time, I've always made the final decision on measurements. Always.

It's in my job description.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

You're kidding, right? I've been a white hat for well over 20 years. In all that time, I've always made the final decision on measurements. Always.

It's in my job description.

Well that is nice, but that was not the point. If your crew does something that is great. The point is my crew communicates to each other. There is dialog between the crew and the Referee. An certainly dialog between the ball holder and the stick holder and the Referee. The Referee is a crew member, not a boss. Maybe your crew you are the dictator, but that is not the case with everyone.

Peace

[CT1]

Of course our crew communicates with each other. However, by rule, "The referee's decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game."

That being the case, I'm not taking someone else's word that the LTG has or hasn't been reached. I'm going to take the extra 5 seconds to see for myself.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

You're kidding, right? I've been a white hat for well over 20 years. In all that time, I've always made the final decision on measurements. Always.

It's in my job description.

This. Once the chains come out, it's the R's call.

That said, all other first down or not decisions are made on my crew by the line judge.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Referee is a crew member, not a boss. Maybe your crew you are the dictator, but that is not the case with everyone.

Peace

Sorry. That's incorrect. The referee IS the boss. Boss doesn't necessarily equal dictator, and in any good crew, the boss is not a dictator (just like any good office situation). Communication IS important, as is trust of your partners and teamwork. But by rule the referee IS the boss, and in particular, the decision of first down or not is on the referee.