Kick, receive or defer revisited

[voiceoflg]

Varsity NFHS game. The white hat graciously allowed our sideline announcer to join them for the coin toss and put that on that radio. We are seldom allowed that, but it was good to let our listeners hear that.

Last night the referee asked the home team. who won the toss, what they wanted to do. This team is 6-29 since the start of the 2009 season. The captain said "we want to kick." The referee said "So you are deferring, then." The captain said "no, we want to kick." The referee said "OK" and stepped back. He then said "Blue has won the toss and elected to defer..."

I explained on the air that even though that is not what the kid said, that is probably what he meant and the referee did the right thing keeping the home team from kicking to start both halves. Good job by the white hat, IMO.

[maven]

Certain mistakes we won't let them make.

My crew always asks the head coach what he'd like to do if he wins (defer or receive), and which way he'd like to kick. So we know what the answer is before the captain gives it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by maven

Certain mistakes we won't let them make.

My crew always asks the head coach what he'd like to do if he wins (defer or receive), and which way he'd like to kick. So we know what the answer is before the captain gives it.

This. I started asking the coach in the pre-game what his intention is if he wins the toss.

But if the captain says "kick", I find a way to restate the question, interpreting that he misheard me somehow. Examples:

• maybe he made a selection before I was finished giving all of the choices
• maybe he was confused by a teammate or opponent talking
• maybe he doesn't know what "defer" means
• I might interpret that I stumbled on a word and it wasn't audible
• I may tell him that "your choice has some instruction for you"
• remind him that if he chooses "kick", then "that team" {pointing to opponents} chooses in the 2nd half

But.... if he says "kick" again, then kick it is.

[Texas Aggie]

The R in the OP handled it right: correct them once, then announce defer. DO NOT allow them to choose the kick option. Defer gets them to the same place, and if something weird like wind is at play, choosing the end of the field gets them to play defense first if they choose.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The R in the OP handled it right: correct them once, then announce defer. DO NOT allow them to choose the kick option. Defer gets them to the same place, and if something weird like wind is at play, choosing the end of the field gets them to play defense first if they choose.

Another way to make the same point: by interpreting "kick" to mean "defer," they STILL have to option to kick twice, if that's what they really want.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

Another way to make the same point: by interpreting "kick" to mean "defer," they STILL have to option to kick twice, if that's what they really want.

I thought the same thing...

About 3 years ago, we had a RIDICULOUSLY windy game on our hands. The kid said "kick". R said, "are you sure you don't mean defer". Kid said, "No, I'm sure - coach said to kick." R (as we've all seen before, and as was done in the OP) signalled that his side deferred. Then, as he's about to ask the kid that won the toss what side they want to defend, the OTHER kid pipes up, "Then WE want to kick."

That was a S-Storm to fix. We did NOT look good after that.

[Rich]

I am playing how I do the coin toss in my head and, come to think of it, I don't present any options. I say, "You've won the toss, it's your option" and I can't remember ever having to say more at the varsity level.

[legend]

Had a Jr, Hi. game thursday night where the team that won the toss (with their coach present) opted to defend. Asked if they ment to defer they said no defend. Again they were asked (with the question being directed to the coach this time) Are you sure you didnt mean to say defer. And the answer again for the 3rd time was "no we want to defend". Some times we just can't help them at all. By the way, loved the coaches face when after the half he realized that he was kicking AGAIN to start the 2nd half. At that point he said...and I quote "Oh so thats why you asked us 3 times if we ment defer" Costly lesson learned.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by legend

Had a Jr, Hi. game thursday night where the team that won the toss (with their coach present) opted to defend. Asked if they ment to defer they said no defend. Again they were asked (with the question being directed to the coach this time) Are you sure you didnt mean to say defer. And the answer again for the 3rd time was "no we want to defend". Some times we just can't help them at all. By the way, loved the coaches face when after the half he realized that he was kicking AGAIN to start the 2nd half. At that point he said...and I quote "Oh so thats why you asked us 3 times if we ment defer" Costly lesson learned.

Wait a minute...what did you interpret "defend" to mean? Neither the kicking nor the receiving team can be said to "defend", but if I were forced to decide which team that means, I would say it's the receiving team, defending the field against the kickoff.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Wait a minute...what did you interpret "defend" to mean? Neither the kicking nor the receiving team can be said to "defend", but if I were forced to decide which team that means, I would say it's the receiving team, defending the field against the kickoff.

Nonsense. Defend means to defend an end. Which leaves the other team to choose between kicking off at the empty end or to receive at the empty end.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Wait a minute...what did you interpret "defend" to mean? Neither the kicking nor the receiving team can be said to "defend", but if I were forced to decide which team that means, I would say it's the receiving team, defending the field against the kickoff.

Ridiculous. If that was the case, the coach would have been shocked a lot earlier, like when the wing asked for a ball for the kickoff.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Wait a minute...what did you interpret "defend" to mean? Neither the kicking nor the receiving team can be said to "defend", but if I were forced to decide which team that means, I would say it's the receiving team, defending the field against the kickoff.

Check your rule book and try again. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

[jchamp]

...
"Do you want to be able to receive the kick at the start of the second half?"
...
If the answer is anything that resembles "yes", then assume he means "Defer."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Check your rule book and try again. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

[JRutledge]

I think at the varsity level this is rather dangerous to change their answer to what we think it should be. If they are not aware of their choices that is not really our concern. I would ask them to clarify their position because it is an unusual choice, but I do not think we should make that choice for them. I would ask a captain if that is really what they want or understand the choice, but I would not just ignore them. The other team just heard what they said too and if you do something that puts them at a disadvantage, they have every right to call you on what you did. I would make sure they they understand that if they kick they will not have a choice in the second half, but I would not just make the decision for them. After all coaches do outthink themselves and make silly decisions sometimes too. Heck and NFL coach once took the wind in OT and never saw the ball.

Peace