College (NAIA) scenario

[DLH17]

I'm not a college official, but I am a fan of my local NAIA team. This play occurred a couple of Saturday's ago. This description was lifted from an NAIA fan forum. What do you college officials have based on the info presented?

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"Early in the Wildcats at Vikings game, Vikings force a punt. The punt is blocked. The loose ball rolls into the end zone. A CSC player bats the ball forward, out onto the field of play, where the ball was recovered by the Wildcats.

Instead of giving the Vikings an option, the referee signaled safety. The Valley special team just made a great play, and, in my eyes, ended up being penalized. I know it was an illegally-batted ball, but in this instance, shouldn't the team blocking the punt get some kind of choice? It seems to me the Wildcats were rewarded for making two bad plays on one snap."

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[Welpe]

Team B can decline the penalty in this case and accept the result of the play. It is unlikely but the R may have gotten word from the sideline that they wanted the safety. Hard to say without seeing it for sure.

I'm assuming CSC was the team punting in this situation?

[JRutledge]

They may have given the option and it was not much of a conversation. Often times coaches do not take their time to make a decision. Then again some officials assume that choice is obvious, because it is what they think is best.

Peace

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Team B can decline the penalty in this case and accept the result of the play. It is unlikely but the R may have gotten word from the sideline that they wanted the safety. Hard to say without seeing it for sure.

I'm assuming CSC was the team punting in this situation?

Yes, C-SC was the K team.

Penalty? Illegal batting/touching by the K team?

[Welpe]

Yes, the penalty is illegal batting. Enforced from the spot of the foul in this case.

[Trap]

I'm confused who is who. But what I think the question is there was a penalty for illegal batting in the end zone, thus the saftey. But because they batted it out, he want to know if the receivers could decline the penalty and take the ball at where they recovered it and go on offense.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Trap

I'm confused who is who. But what I think the question is there was a penalty for illegal batting in the end zone, thus the saftey. But because they batted it out, he want to know if the receivers could decline the penalty and take the ball at where they recovered it and go on offense.

Yes.

(C-SC Wildcats are K)

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Yes, the penalty is illegal batting. Enforced from the spot of the foul in this case.

Since the spot of the foul was in K's end zone, the enforcement is a safety? Not from the spot of the ball in the field of play (in this case, near the 5 yd line)?

(Sorry, I'm still not fully understanding the enforcement and/or options for the Vikings, if any, in this scenario.)

[Texas Aggie]

The foul is an illegal bat, which is a basic spot foul (in this case, enforced from the spot OF THE FOUL -- the end zone) and would result in a loss of down and safety if enforced. Team B should have been given an option to decline the penalty and take the ball where they recovered it. R would only signal a safety if Team B accepted the penalty.

What is the Fed rule here? Not that its relevant to this play, but I'm wondering if the crew worked Fed Friday night and forgot the NCAA rule on Saturday.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The foul is an illegal bat, which is a basic spot foul (in this case, enforced from the spot OF THE FOUL -- the end zone) and would result in a loss of down and safety if enforced. Team B should have been given an option to decline the penalty and take the ball where they recovered it. R would only signal a safety if Team B accepted the penalty.

What is the Fed rule here? Not that its relevant to this play, but I'm wondering if the crew worked Fed Friday night and forgot the NCAA rule on Saturday.

Thanks for the response.

As far as the fed rule, I did a quick case play search with key word "punt" and found that "force" is the operative word. If R blocks K punt, and the ball rolls towards K's end zone, then muffed (barely touched by) K, the referee must determine if the original force to the ball (the block) would have been sufficient to move the ball into the end zone. If so, then it is a touchback. If the touching was a new force, then a recovery by K would be a safety or recovery by R would be a TD.

[maven]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Thanks for the response.

As far as the fed rule, I did a quick case play search with key word "punt" and found that "force" is the operative word. If R blocks K punt, and the ball rolls towards K's end zone, then muffed (barely touched by) K, the referee must determine if the original force to the ball (the block) would have been sufficient to move the ball into the end zone. If so, then it is a touchback. If the touching was a new force, then a recovery by K would be a safety or recovery by R would be a TD.

First, you don't quite have your own case right: if K muffs their own kick near the GL, then K put the ball into the EZ either way, by the kick or the muff. If the ball becomes dead in the EZ, then it's a safety.

But that's irrelevant to the OP: the ball wasn't muffed, it was blocked, and the kick put the ball into the EZ. And even if B had put the ball in the EZ, the ball did not become dead there, and the enforcement spot for the foul is still in the EZ.

For NFHS, you'd have the same foul, same penalty (except no LOD), and same options as NCAA (safety or possession to B where A recovered).

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by maven

First, you don't quite have your own case right: if K muffs their own kick near the GL, then K put the ball into the EZ either way, by the kick of the muff. If the ball becomes dead in the EZ, then it's a safety.

But that's irrelevant to the OP: the ball wasn't muffed, it was blocked, and the kick put the ball into the EZ. And even if B had put the ball in the EZ, the ball did not become dead there, and the enforcement spot for the foul is still in the EZ.

For NFHS, you'd have the same foul, same penalty (except no LOD), and same options as NCAA (safety or possession to B where A recovered).

ya, i screwed that up big time. should have just copied and pasted the case play.

edit: I knew this scenario wasn't the same, but, couldn't find anything else closer to the play described:

Rule: *8.5.2



*8.5.2 SITUATION C:

K1’s punt is blocked on K’s 5-yard line and the ball is slowly rolling near the goal line. R1 attempts to recover and just barely touches the ball. The ball then rolls into the end zone where K2 falls on it.

RULING: The covering official will have to judge whether or not a new force resulted from R1’s touch. The covering official must decide whether the original force was such that the ball could have gone into the end zone regardless of the muff. If the covering official has doubt, he will rule that the force was supplied by the kick, thus resulting in a safety. If the covering official rules R1 supplied the force, it is a touchback. (8-5-2b)

[DLH17]

Does college rule 4-3-c apply to this scenario?

[maven]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Does college rule 4-3-c apply to this scenario?

I don't see a section 3 in rule 4. Do you mean 4-1-3-c? If so: yes, the ball is dead after a safety.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by maven

I don't see a section 3 in rule 4. Do you mean 4-1-3-c? If so: yes, the ball is dead after a safety.

Yes. Thanks.

So, is the ball dead in the end zone or when downed after the batting?