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I believe Merlin has a vaild point. There would almost certainly have to be ineligibles downfield at that point. If so, and since poessession never changed (no 'clean hands' to think about), the foul would be enforced from the previous spot. Replay of 4th down.
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It will be 1st and 10 for K from K's 35 following penalty enforcement. |
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Yeah, that was funny! I think my mind was fried when I wrote that. Long day at work and this play to think about was too much.
I should have said ineligibles downfield. |
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hmmm....
hmmmm. I can't find anything that says recovery AFTER touching by K behind the neutral zone in my case book. but if I use the logic of 'not advancing a muff' why would we not have K ball 1 and 10 at the spot of recovery since a legal kick has occured? The only snag I see in explaining is the pass was incomplete. had it been complet or he ran, would we not by in the right to rule the play was essentially over when K secured possession? just my opinion....
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That looked just ugly enough to be legal. |
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However, BEHIND the NZ, anyone can advance the ball. 6-2-3 |
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I'm givng DJ_NV the trophy for coming up with what may just be the most mysterious play situation ever...anybody want to email a NF interpretor for a final ruling?
Just when I thought after 25 years of officiating and rules study I had it all figured out...(or much of it anyway between bouts of random forgetfullness and brain locks...) |
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I'll certainly pass on the credit...this was the brainchild of one of our fellow members in my association. He was going to email it to the Fed as well. I will post here if he receives a response.
Thanks again to all for sparing a bit of their time and brainpower. I was hoping that someone might have been able to produce a casebook situation that I missed, but I just don't think it's there. |
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I've seen this play discussed several times on various boards (including this one I think) and we've discussed it at association meetings. I doubt it would ever happen though. I'm pretty sure the result of every discussion was 1st and 10 for A at the previous spot. The team in possession at the end of the down gets a new series since the ball was touched by R beyond the neutral zone. Even though it was an incomplete pass, K was in possession at the end of the down. On an incomplete legal forward pass, the next down is from the previous line of scrimmage. Assuming no ineligible receivers were downfield, A's ball 1st and 10 at the K40.
If you did have ineligible receivers down field, it would be 4th and 15 at the K35. R would take that penalty. |
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Rule 5-1-3f ART. 3 . . . When a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines, a new series is awarded to: f. The team in possession at the end of the down, if R is the first to touch a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the expanded neutral zone, unless the penalty is accepted for a non post-scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the kick ended.
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers |
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In your scenario, we have a spot of first touching on the second kick. R may take the ball at that spot. |
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Aw, too bad, I was hoping we could complicate this one even more.
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