T on parents?

[Rob_K]

AAU 8th grade competitive basketball. If parents are screaming at the refs throughout the game, can or would you call a "T"? In other words, what are your boundaries with regards to unruly parents? Seems to me, an official could find out what team they represent and call a T on that team. Second time, the head coach is out of the game.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Rob_K

In other words, what are your boundaries with regards to unruly parents?

I could be wrong, but I believe the first thing you should do is speak with the site manager or event manager. Ask them to observe the fans in question. If the fans continue, the manager will take care of it. It is usually better to have them deal with it, for they have to power to remove fans without you having to penalize either team.

I do not know about resorting to a technical foul, a more experienced member will have to answer that.

[just another ref]

NFHS rules: A T can be called on team supporters but "care should be used not to unduly penalize the players for the actions of idiots." (paraphrased)
If screaming is all it is, my advice is get used to it. It's the rule, not the exception. If the behavior is over the top, let game management handle it. If you do resort to T'ing the crowd, I would think it would only tend to make matters worse. And the T is a team T, not to the coach.

If necessary, point out the offenders, let game management take care of it.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I have heard of a couple of occasions where it was necessary to remove a parent/fan from the stands. As others have indicated, this is not our responsibility as an official, but rather that of game management. The way we have told our officials to handle it is to go over to the scorer's table and ask for the administrator. Once they arrive, let them know who the fan/parent is that needs to be removed, and sometimes you have to let them know that the game will not continue until that happens.

[JetMetFan]

Unless those parents are sitting in a team's bench area, they're game management's headache to deal with. If they're getting over the top you can always ask game management to do something about them but as was said, they're yelling, get used to it.

[ref3808]

The T will incite the crowd further. As others have said, your're best bet is to get site management involved.

In one AAU game I officiated last year the unruly parent was one of the moms. After about a half of listening to her another parent who was an off duty police officer went over to her and showed his badge and told her she was close to being arrested for threatening a sports official.

It was a beautiful thing.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The policy that I have advocated for 42 years is this:

As long as a spectator does not: make a threat of violence against the officials or the competitors (players and bench personnel), does not come onto the court, or commits and act of violence against the officials or the competitors (players and bench personnel), the IGNORE them. If any of the three things that I have described occurs, then get Game Management involved IMMEDIATELY.

Let the spectators yell until they are blue in the face, I do not care.

MTD, Sr.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

AAU 8th grade competitive basketball. If parents are screaming at the refs throughout the game, can or would you call a "T"? In other words, what are your boundaries with regards to unruly parents? Seems to me, an official could find out what team they represent and call a T on that team. Second time, the head coach is out of the game.

Thoughts?

Think about it. Do you really think calling a T on the fans is going to improve the situation?


10 years ago, we had a huge problem with fans at AAU girls' tournaments here in NC. Then, the state AAU directors created a policy that said if a parent's behavior became so bad that they were ejected from the facility, their daughter would ALSO be ejected. Unbelievable how quickly fan behavior improved at AAU tournaments.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The policy that I have advocated for 42 years is this:

As long as a spectator does not: make a threat of violence against the officials or the competitors (players and bench personnel), does not come onto the court, or commits and act of violence against the officials or the competitors (players and bench personnel), the IGNORE them. If any of the three things that I have described occurs, then get Game Management involved IMMEDIATELY.

Let the spectators yell until they are blue in the face, I do not care.

MTD, Sr.

I think there are things short of threats or acts of violence that need to be addressed.

[twocentsworth]

In my experience, the officials "who ALWAYS have to be right", are the officials who get bothered by the comments directed at them. You can control the players, coaches, and bench personnel....you CAN'T control the parents/fans - SO DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THEM!

The only people who care what they say (whether they're right or wrong), are they officials who HAVE to be right everytime. Stop worrying about them - and you're game will be much better.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I do not know about resorting to a technical foul, a more experienced member will have to answer that.

2.8.1 SITUATION: What guidelines should be exercised by the officials when
spectators’ actions are such that they interfere with the administration of the
game?

RULING: The rules book states “the official may rule fouls on either team
if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the
game.” It is significant to note the word used is “may.” This gives permission, but
does not in any way imply that officials must call technical fouls on team followers
or supporters for unsporting acts. Thus, while officials do have the authority
to penalize a team whose spectators interfere with the proper conduct of the
game, this authority must be used with extreme caution and discretion. While the
authority is there, the official must rarely use it, because experience has demonstrated
that calling hasty technical fouls on the crowd rarely solves the problem
and may, in fact, result in penalizing the wrong team because the official may not
have proper knowledge as to which team's supporters were responsible for the
unsporting act.

COMMENT: Responsibility for the behavior of spectators is that
of home or game management. The rules book stipulates that insofar as the management
can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, it is its responsibility
to do so. Home management has the responsibility of providing a site where
the game can proceed in a sporting manner. If the conduct of spectators prohibits
the orderly continuance of a game, the officials should have a representative of
game management take whatever action is necessary. This may require the
removal of a team follower(s). This can be done without charging the supporters'
team with a technical foul. The advised procedure is for the official to notify game
management as to which follower(s) must be removed from the site. The officials
may stop the game until host management resolves the situation. Another problem
arises when team supporters throw debris, paper, coins, ice or other items
on the floor. If the official has positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw
the items, the official should instruct game management to have the supporter(s)
removed from the site. As in the previous case, this can be done without charging
the supporters' team with a technical foul. If the official does not have positive
knowledge, the official should instruct game management to make a public
address announcement stating that the next time debris is thrown on the floor, it
will result in a technical foul charged to that supporters' team and will also result
in the supporter(s) being removed from the facility. If after the announcement, the
situation is not brought under control, the officials may also stop the game until
host management resolves the situation. In most situations, after an announcement
has been made, game management is very aware of the problem and will
usually have positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw the items on the
floor. If the disruption is not brought under control and the contest cannot safely
continue, rather than assess several technical fouls, officials are advised to
suspend the game.

[APG]

Billy...wall of text...and formatting....

[Adam]

Billy, I'll bet you could have made the same point in less than twelve words.

[APG]

You get half credit Billy

To stay on topic, going to a T against team followers should almost never come up in almost all situations. Get game management involved if you must, but I'll say, simple yelling at the officials, isn't cause for action (unless it's over the top...and even then, get game management to deal with it).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Billy, I'll bet you could have made the same point in less than twelve words.

I didn't realize that the Forum was the basketball version of Name That Tune.