parents fighting

[ChrisSportsFan]

Hey Guys/Gals, I've been visiting this forum for a few months and finally decided to register.

Here's one and I'll try to keep a long story from being longer:: It's Mother's Day and I'm working a girls 8th grade game, my partner calls an obvious train reck foul on team A, a parent from A (a Mother) starts booing and hissing, a parent from team B (a Mother) starts applauding my partner, same Mom from A walks the length of the floor to confront Mom from B and proceeds to deck her, husband stands up and "A" quickly helps him back into his seat. I race to coaches and make them go deal with it while I stood with my back to the wall. I ended up running both parents and suggesting someone not let them be in the parking lot alone.

What's your thoughts on this situation and also I know many of you have witnessed out of control parents and I'd like to hear about it.

[ChuckElias]

So Mom A decked Mom B and Dad B, too? Whew! Line her up for Tyson's next fight.

I think you did all you could, Chris. You definitely do not want to insert yourself into that situation. You go to whoever is charge of the facility and have them handle it. Ideally, there is one such person there, but at a low-level game on a Sunday morning (Mother's Day, no less ), you might only be able to go to the coaches.

Welcome to the Forum!

[mick]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I race to coaches and make them go deal with it while I stood with my back to the wall.

Welcome to the forum, ChrisSportsFan.

I wouldn't have raced.
Just kill the ball and stay away. It was a ref's call that triggered the activities,and you don't wanna be the nearest sriped shirt.

mick

RE: Train wreck - I consider the term "train wreck" as incidental contact on the hardwood and in the field.

[Dan_ref]

Sounds like you handled it well.

Get your name in the paper the next day?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
Hey Guys/Gals, I've been visiting this forum for a few months and finally decided to register.

Here's one and I'll try to keep a long story from being longer:: It's Mother's Day and I'm working a girls 8th grade game, my partner calls an obvious train reck foul on team A, a parent from A (a Mother) starts booing and hissing, a parent from team B (a Mother) starts applauding my partner, same Mom from A walks the length of the floor to confront Mom from B and proceeds to deck her, husband stands up and "A" quickly helps him back into his seat. I race to coaches and make them go deal with it while I stood with my back to the wall. I ended up running both parents and suggesting someone not let them be in the parking lot alone.

What's your thoughts on this situation and also I know many of you have witnessed out of control parents and I'd like to hear about it.

I am going to make the following assumuptions (even though my H.S. geometry teacher told me never to assume because it will make an A(ss) of U and Me):

1) Since the game was being played on Mother's Day, it was during a tournament (AAU, YBOA, AYBTour, NAYB, etc.).

2) Since this was a tournament game there was a Site Manager present.



Spectators are not the concern of the game officials, except for the following exceptions:

1) A spectator makes threats of physical violence against a participant (game officials, table officials, players, coaches, and bench personnel) of the game.

2) The spectator enters the playing court/field.

3) The spectator throws material onto the playing court/field.

4) The extremely rare situations that impact play on the playing court/field. These situations will always be subject to debate, and usually occur when the number of spectators is very small, usually under 100.

Contrary to poplular belief, spectators are not the responsibility of the game officials. Game officials have enought to worry about what is happening between the lines let alone what is happeneing in the stands. When any of the above three things happen, stop the game and have the Site Manager take care of it.



Have I ever had a spectator removed from a game? Yes. How many? Four.

1) I had the Site Manager remove two spectators removed from an AAU Boys' National Invitational Basketball tournament game for entering the court to show their displeasure with a call that my partner made.

2) I had the Athletic Director remove a spectator during a boys' H.S. jr. varsity basketball game after he came onto the court during play because he did not like my officiating and he pushed me from behind.

3) And, just last week during the YBOA Boys' Basketball National Championships I had the Site Manager remove a mother who was sitting in the front row, for calling me a "f****** racist" while I was about to place the ball into play on a sideline throw-in during a boys' 9U game. There were about six players in the immediate vicinity and their mouths hit the floor when they heard her. There was considerably less that 100 spectators in the stands for this game. Had this been a large crowd, I would have ignored her comments.

The first two spectator removals that I have described fell under my Rules 1 and 2, and the third removal fell under Rule 4.


Your situation falls under my Rule 4, and you were correct to stop the game, but the Site Manager should have been the person that should have addressed the problem.

During the first week of the July at the YBOA Girls' Basketabll Championships, a fight broke out between parents during a 13U game. The game officials stopped the game and let the Site Manager handle the situation. And, no, I was not one of the game officials for this game; I was officiating at a different site.

The real problem for the game officials is when there are no Site Manager or Game Administrators at the game site when a situation like yours happened. When such a thing happens, just stop the game and let itself play itself out. Do NOT get involved. Let the coaches take care of but do NOT get involved, except to maybe call 911.

MTD, Sr.

[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Aug 5th, 2004 at 03:01 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am going to make the following assumuptions (even though my H.S. geometry teacher told me never to assume because it will make an A(ss) of U and Me):

Whoa, you're really going out on a limb here Mark.

BTW, was your teacher Felix Unger?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am going to make the following assumuptions (even though my H.S. geometry teacher told me never to assume because it will make an A(ss) of U and Me):

I agree!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I am going to make the following assumuptions (even though my H.S. geometry teacher told me never to assume because it will make an A(ss) of U and Me):

Well, the peer review may take issue with your conclusions, but your basic assumptions seem solid!

[ChrisSportsFan]

Nope, didn't get my name in the paper, the police didn't make an appearance, and we actually finished the game without another insident. At least once coach for B realized that if his parent didn't antagonize, she wouldn't have gotten popped, and that he couldn't change my mind about the necessity for her to leave the gym also. In hindsite, I've learned that the Mom from A is known all around town for causing trouble.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For all of those who read my original post, please re-read it. I accidently hit the enter key instead of the shift key and set the post before I really had a chance to write it. I have edited it to show my complete posting.

Chuck:

I do resemble that remark. LOL.

MTD, Sr.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Mark, I agree with you completely. The game was at a local Jr High school and the my partner was the Son (college student age) of the guy who runs the league and that was it for site mgmt. I think he was so shocked at what happened that he just froze. Once I saw that his feet were "stuck in the mud", I went to the coaches and made them handle it all; break up the fight, sit all parents down and inform the ejectees, all the while I had my back to the wall.

By the way; my partner made the right call as it was made in our common primary and I saw the whole thing.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Whoa, you're really going out on a limb here Mark.

BTW, was your teacher Felix Unger?

Dan,
If we ain't livin' on the edge, then we're too far on.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
For all of those who read my original post, please re-read it. I accidently hit the enter key instead of the shift key and set the post before I really had a chance to write it. I have edited it to show my complete posting.

Chuck:

I do resemble that remark. LOL.

MTD, Sr.

Whew...for a second there I thought you had an attack of conciseness.

Looks like you survived it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[/B]

Spectators are not the concern of the game officials, except for the following exceptions:

1) A spectator makes threats of physical violence against a participant (game officials, table officials, players, coaches, and bench personnel) of the game.

2) The spectator enters the playing court/field.

3) The spectator throws material onto the playing court/field.

4) The extremely rare situations that impact play on the playing court/field. These situations will always be subject to debate, and usually occur when the number of spectators is very small, usually under 100.

Contrary to poplular belief, spectators are not the responsibility of the game officials. Game officials have enought to worry about what is happening between the lines let alone what is happeneing in the stands. When any of the above three things happen, stop the game and have the Site Manager take care of it.

[/B][/QUOTE]Disagree- somewhat. If spectators aren't part of our responsibility, then why did they put rules in the book to cover them? Specifically NFHS rule 2-8-1- which does give us the right to call a "T" on a team's fans or eject them(also see casebook play 2.8.1). We also have to apply Rule 1-18 and casebook play 1.18 with regards to noisemakers,etc. as part of our duties also. Iow, the stands are our responsibility, but we don't deal with them directly, unless it's via a "T"- which has happened already in NCAA games for fans throwing toilet paper on the floor after the home team made their first basket. Game management acts at OUR direction.

We're probably just arguing semantics, Mark, but I wanted to emphasize that game management, including the fans, is definitely part of our duties.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Spectators are not the concern of the game officials, except for the following exceptions:

1) A spectator makes threats of physical violence against a participant (game officials, table officials, players, coaches, and bench personnel) of the game.

2) The spectator enters the playing court/field.

3) The spectator throws material onto the playing court/field.

4) The extremely rare situations that impact play on the playing court/field. These situations will always be subject to debate, and usually occur when the number of spectators is very small, usually under 100.

Contrary to poplular belief, spectators are not the responsibility of the game officials. Game officials have enought to worry about what is happening between the lines let alone what is happeneing in the stands. When any of the above three things happen, stop the game and have the Site Manager take care of it.

[/B]

Disagree- somewhat. If spectators aren't part of our responsibility, then why did they put rules in the book to cover them? Specifically NFHS rule 2-8-1- which does give us the right to call a "T" on a team's fans or eject them(also see casebook play 2.8.1). We also have to apply Rule 1-18 and casebook play 1.18 with regards to noisemakers,etc. as part of our duties also. Iow, the stands are our responsibility, but we don't deal with them directly, unless it's via a "T"- which has happened already in NCAA games for fans throwing toilet paper on the floor after the home team made their first basket. Game management acts at OUR direction.

We're probably just arguing semantics, Mark, but I wanted to emphasize that game management, including the fans, is definitely part of our duties. [/B][/QUOTE]



I agree with you on what is in the rules books, in fact in the YBOA tournament last week, I had the site manager tell three parents to put artificial noise makers away. But I would caution you to charge a team with a technical foul because of the behavior of its spectators, it is a no win situation that no official wants. There are much better ways to handle spectators. As far as the NCAA and its rule regarding the throwing toilet paper onto the court, that rule was adopted because of a few colleges where the students took great delight in stopping the game; since that rule was adopted, the toilet paper throwing has become a thing of the past.