Clock reads 0:00

[jdmara]

Had a situation on Sunday I was uncertain of at a men's league game at the local rec center (which surprisingly was enjoyable, good group of guys). Anyways, in the final seconds of the first half Team A makes a basket and Team B quickly calls timeout. Both my partner and I whistle for the timeout and look up at the clock to see 0:00 (without the buzzer sounding). Unfortunately, the scoreboard at the rec center does not display tenths of a second in the fleeting moments of the final minute, however, the scoreboard module does. The time on the module reads 0:00.5.

5-2-5

ART. 5 . . . When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and three-tenths (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. In this situation only a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

I don't quite know how to interpret the note in 5-2-5. Does that mean that if the clock reads 0:00, the period is complete? Or does that mean a player may gain control of the ball and try for a field goal as long as their release is completed before the buzzer sounds? My intuition is that the period is completed once the clock reads 0:00 but I'm, honestly, uncertain. Unfortunately the 2008-2009 casebook does not address this situation. This probably is because the clocks are suppose to display tenths of a second.

Thanks Gentleman!

-Josh

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Had a situation on Sunday I was uncertain of at a men's league game at the local rec center (which surprisingly was enjoyable, good group of guys). Anyways, in the final seconds of the first half Team A makes a basket and Team B quickly calls timeout. Both my partner and I whistle for the timeout and look up at the clock to see 0:00 (without the buzzer sounding). Unfortunately, the scoreboard at the rec center does not display tenths of a second in the fleeting moments of the final minute, however, the scoreboard module does. The time on the module reads 0:00.5.



I don't quite know how to interpret the note in 5-2-5. Does that mean that if the clock reads 0:00, the period is complete? Or does that mean a player may gain control of the ball and try for a field goal as long as their release is completed before the buzzer sounds? My intuition is that the period is completed once the clock reads 0:00 but I'm, honestly, uncertain. Unfortunately the 2008-2009 casebook does not address this situation. This probably is because the clocks are suppose to display tenths of a second.

Thanks Gentleman!

-Josh

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

Agreed.

[jdmara]

Thanks gentleman. Unfortunately my memory is about as long as {insert witty commenter here}. I couldn't remember how it used to be done.

-Josh

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The period is not complete until you have a horn regardless of 0:00 on the clock...unfortunately without 10ths of a second on the clock you are left to your judgement to determine if they can get the shot off...just like the old days...

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

[Back In The Saddle]

NFHS 5-6-2: "ART. 2 . . . Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal sounds indicating time has expired."

NCAA 5-7-2: "Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall terminate players’ activity."

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you. Now you own it too.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Why wouldn't you? If you have definite knowledge based on the control module as to how much time is actually left, you can certainly use that to determine if a catch and shoot scenario is possible. Are you saying that if you saw 0.2 seconds on the control module, you would still allow a catch and shoot?

Well if you read 5-2-5 it says the 3/10ths rule does not apply if the scoreboard does not display 10ths of a second so your point above moot....that said it is an interesting point and if I knew that there were 2/10ths I would probably not allow a catch and shoot (and would hope that the operator is on point and starts the clock on time so I get a horn!), but according to the rule I should not even consider it....which is a good reason to not even look at the module if it is not on the board, don't tempt yourself with knowledge you shouldn't have!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you.

Already?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Well if you read 5-2-5 it says the 3/10ths rule does not apply if the scoreboard does not display 10ths of a second so your point above moot....that said it is an interesting point and if I knew that there were 2/10ths I would probably not allow a catch and shoot (and would hope that the operator is on point and starts the clock on time so I get a horn!), but according to the rule I should not even consider it....which is a good reason to not even look at the module if it is not on the board, don't tempt yourself with knowledge you shouldn't have!

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

NFHS 5-6-2: "ART. 2 . . . Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal sounds indicating time has expired."

NCAA 5-7-2: "Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall terminate players’ activity."

I could tell you a dreadful and boring story about how I own this rule, but I'll spare you. Now you own it too.

I would love to hear a story

I've actually officiated a game in which the clock operator stopped the clock (on a whistle) at the exact same time as the clock expired. This situation resulted in 0:00.0 on the clock without a horn. In fact we were astonished that when we "started" the clock on the touch (after the in-bounds) the horn did not sound. Freak accident but it's possible, I guess. Does that mean we should still be playing since we didn't hear the horn? Just kidding guys, but it really did happen.

-Josh

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I would love to hear a story

I've actually officiated a game in which the clock operator stopped the clock (on a whistle) at the exact same time as the clock expired. This situation resulted in 0:00.0 on the clock without a horn. In fact we were astonished that when we "started" the clock on the touch (after the in-bounds) the horn did not sound. Freak accident but it's possible, I guess. Does that mean we should still be playing since we didn't hear the horn? Just kidding guys, but it really did happen.

-Josh

Does this answer your question?

5.6 SITUATION: A1 is fouled in the act of shooting by B1. A1's try or tap is successful to make the score with Team A leading 62-58. When the foul occurs, the clock is stopped with 0:00 showing, but the signal has not sounded. RULING: A1 will attempt the free throw with lane spaces occupied as required. The fourth period time has not expired until the signal sounds.

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except that he does have the 10th's on the control module and does know that there are 0.5 seconds remaining....enough time to get off a catch-n-shoot.

The rule as worded, though, does not guarantee that a catch-and-shoot can be done in exactly 0.3 seconds. That's a minimum, isn't it? If you have a slow shooter, 0.5 might not be enough time to get a shot off.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I would love to hear a story

I've actually officiated a game in which the clock operator stopped the clock (on a whistle) at the exact same time as the clock expired. This situation resulted in 0:00.0 on the clock without a horn. In fact we were astonished that when we "started" the clock on the touch (after the in-bounds) the horn did not sound. Freak accident but it's possible, I guess. Does that mean we should still be playing since we didn't hear the horn? Just kidding guys, but it really did happen.

-Josh

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Does this answer your question?

5.6 SITUATION: A1 is fouled in the act of shooting by B1. A1's try or tap is successful to make the score with Team A leading 62-58. When the foul occurs, the clock is stopped with 0:00 showing, but the signal has not sounded. RULING: A1 will attempt the free throw with lane spaces occupied as required. The fourth period time has not expired until the signal sounds.

They did play on in Josh's situation. However, when play started the horn never did end up sounding. So he was asking, tongue-in-cheek, if that means the game should still be playing now. Not if they should have continued playing the game.