First hit from back row question

[refnrev]

I've watched several games recently since one AD accidentally booked three officials for several games. Good thing was that it let me watch a lot of good MS games. Two officials (not working together, ever) made this call all season, but no one else over did. On a ball played to a back row player behind the attack line, when the back row player had a two handed overhead return (like a set) towards the net both always whistled illegal hit. There was no prolonged contact, the ball didn't get anywhere near enough to cross the net, and it was always in the general vicinity of another player. I saw this same play many times but it was never called by another official; only these two. Isn't this a legal hit so long as it goes towards another player and does not cross the net?

[FMadera]

Well, if I can mentally picture what you're trying to ask...

It sounds like they need to learn the concept of illegal hit. If it wasn't mishandled, it's not an illegal hit. It's not illegal for any back row player to attack a ball that is not entirely above the net. In addition, if the back row player was behind the attack line, unless it's a libero, it wouldn't even matter if the ball was entirely above the net (unless we're talking about a two handed return of a served ball, in which case it would be illegal to attack, under NFHS rules, while entirely above the net).

If you see them again, you may want to ask what their rationale was for determining this to be an illegal hit or attack. I'd love to know...

[MCBear]

As Felix indicated, nothing in what you posted would indicate an illegal hit on the back-row player. So, if you can find out those officials' rationale, it would go a long way toward explaining why they are calling an illegal hit. From what you describe, I would be letting the kids play on.

[refnrev]

The ball was clearly not mishandled. They were clean hits. Some of the calls were on the serve. It was a two-handed overhead hit from behind the attack line, but it wasn't a return over the net, but towards a team mate. They were NFHS rules.
Does this help clarify it any better?

[Edited by refnrev on Mar 11th, 2005 at 02:12 PM]

[FMadera]

The ball was clearly not mishandled. They were clean hits. Some of the calls were on the serve. It was a two-handed overhead hit from behind the attack line, but it wasn't a return over the net, but towards a team mate. They were NFHS rules.
Does this help clarify it any better?

Not really, other than maybe these are a couple of the officials that seem to think that you can't legally take a first ball in your hands?

[refnrev]

[/quote]

Not really, other than maybe these are a couple of the officials that seem to think that you can't legally take a first ball in your hands? [/B][/QUOTE]

If by that you mean nothing on the serve with an overhead action rather than underhand, that is the only thing that I can figure they were calling. I worked with one of their partners a couple of nights after that. I asked her and she said that she didn't understand the calls and would have allowed the play to continue, but she was the U nor the R.

So am I correct? A back row player can contact the ball with an overhead pass (setting action) [Rule 9:5 Art 1, Def'n 2] on a serve so long as you do not play the ball back across the net? Thanks for the input. I really love officiating volleyball and want to make sure I have it right. RR

[MCBear]

So am I correct? A back row player can contact the ball with an overhead pass (setting action) [Rule 9:5 Art 1, Def'n 2] on a serve so long as you do not play the ball back across the net?

refnrev, no...a back-row player may contact the ball in any legal manner and return it to the opponent's court at any time as long as the ball is NOT above the height of the net (see Rule 9.6.6). The player can play the ball with an overhand setting action as long as there is not prolonged contact (on any of the three allowed team contacts), it is not multiple contacted (on the second or third team contact), and/or it is not caught nor thrown.

The more I read what you saw, the more I am sure that the officials in question have been making an error in judging ball-handling.

[refnrev]

Originally posted by MCBear

refnrev, no...a back-row player may contact the ball in any legal manner and return it to the opponent's court at any time as long as the ball is NOT above the height of the net (see Rule 9.6.6).
The more I read what you saw, the more I am sure that the officials in question have been making an error in judging ball-handling.

Thanks for the clarification. I was assuming that it was understood that it wasn't above the height of the net in my comment. I should have been more specific. You know what they say about assuming....

[Vb Scrub]

I see a lot of these calls where I am at. My wife coaches H.S. and she asked one of the refs what he thought of the new rule(a year or two ago whenever it was) that allowed multiple contacts on the first contact and he said the way you get around this is to just call a lift every time. There are at least half the H.S. refs here that call it like that, they don't like the rule, they don't like the overhead pass so they will automatically call it. There are times when they are calling it before the ball is even contacted.

IMO, it takes quite a bit of ego to figure you know more about the game and how it should be than the rest of the world and nearly every governing body. Rules change and as a ref you have to change with them. Don't get me wrong, there are good refs out there but where I am at the only exposure many of these refs have to the game are HS JV matches or small schools where volleyball exposure is limited anyway.