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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 09:00am
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Angry

I'm new! Because of overlapping for switches, I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of the lineup after rotations. I wonder if other umpires are having this trouble, or if they ignore it because of more "important" considerations, or if it's really an experience thing that will come EVENTUALLY, or if there's a lineup card system that can really clarify this for me. Thanks for input!
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Old Tue Oct 12, 2004, 10:58am
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Quote:
Originally posted by newkidonthenet
I'm new! Because of overlapping for switches, I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of the lineup after rotations. I wonder if other umpires are having this trouble, or if they ignore it because of more "important" considerations, or if it's really an experience thing that will come EVENTUALLY, or if there's a lineup card system that can really clarify this for me. Thanks for input!
Short answer - it will come in time. Face it, the umpire's job is like eating an elephant - the only way to do it without choking is a fork-full at a time.

That said, there are some things you can do to help it along. With respect to a lineup card system, the most important thing is to find something that works for you. My advice would be to keep it as simple as possible.

Another thing I'd suggest is to watch as many matches as possible when you're not officiating. Try keeping a lineup card & look for the switches & overlaps - learn to recognize the patterns. It's a lot easier to see when you don't have to deal with all the other stuff the umpire is responsible for.
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Old Wed Oct 13, 2004, 02:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by newkidonthenet
I'm new! Because of overlapping for switches, I'm having a lot of trouble keeping track of the lineup after rotations. I wonder if other umpires are having this trouble, or if they ignore it because of more "important" considerations, or if it's really an experience thing that will come EVENTUALLY, or if there's a lineup card system that can really clarify this for me. Thanks for input!
Ask to see the line-up cards of several different varsity level officials. Try different systems until you find something that works for you. I recommend NOT ignoring it in favor of "more important" issues. This would definitely come back later to bite you in the hiney!
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Old Wed Oct 13, 2004, 06:02am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker

Ask to see the line-up cards of several different varsity level officials. Try different systems until you find something that works for you. I recommend NOT ignoring it in favor of "more important" issues. This would definitely come back later to bite you in the hiney!
A good suggestion Juulie! So we finally enticed you away from the bball forum for a bit, eh?

Some folks use preprinted versions, others simply a folded 3x5 file card - look around until you find something you like & feel comfortable with.

Juulie is correct, it's not something that you want to ignore, and I hope my earlier post didn't imply that, as that was not my intent - just don't get so wrapped up in it that you ignore the rest of the umpire's job.

The four basic things that I track, in my personal order of importance are:
1. Current lineup order with substitutions
2. Current or last server for each team
3. Number of timeouts used for each team
4. Number of substitutions used for each team

There are several other things I note with 1 or 2 character shorthand, but those I listed are the basics you need to start with.



[Edited by TimTaylor on Oct 13th, 2004 at 11:48 AM]
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Old Thu Oct 14, 2004, 12:55pm
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Like others have said you have to get something that works for you. I never quite got the hang of lineup cards I spent too much time wondering who was back row and for some reason I just couldn't see it quick. So I went to a lineup disk, and I love it! I am posting the link to it below. I have had several people say they tried it and didn't like it at all, then I have worked with a couple of other believers in the disk. Again you have to get what works for you, but this allows you to rotate the linup as the girls rotate and back row players always have the black color on the wheel so you can quickly determine if the girl hitting is front or back row. Again this is just one idea, you have to find what works for you.

http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/ca...showprevnext=1
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Old Thu Oct 14, 2004, 03:35pm
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Thumbs up line-up cards

Thanks for that link! I experimented with a rotating disk that I made [when the experienced officials saw it, they rolled their eyes!], and it's the most effective system for me so far. I like your sample with the black part that shows the back row. The black really highlights those positions quickly. And I'm glad to know others have been in the same boat and lived through it!

Thanks!
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Old Fri Oct 15, 2004, 06:37pm
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Here is my two cents - Find something that works for you! (Where have I heard that before?)

When I started, I used a card with the lineup written in a straight line just like it is entered in the scorebook. As each player rotated back to serve, I would place a tick mark next to her number. This allowed me to identify the server at a glance and know that the three numbers under or following the server were front row and the two numbers above the server were back row.

For the last few years, I have not used a lineup card. The trick that I learned that has helped me the most is to identfy the setter and her "opposite" player. I then try to remember two other opposite players. I have discovered that most alignment calls that I make as R2 involve the setter.

Something that you said in your orignal message really got me to thinking, but I'll start another thread.
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Old Sat Oct 16, 2004, 01:40am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy

For the last few years, I have not used a lineup card. The trick that I learned that has helped me the most is to identfy the setter and her "opposite" player. I then try to remember two other opposite players. I have discovered that most alignment calls that I make as R2 involve the setter.
Andy,

Our state association requires the U/R2 to keep a lineup card, and the R1 to do so if it's a single official match. Even though we're no longer required to track the server, I still do - it's come in handy a couple times at sublevel games when the scorekeeper didn't have a real good handle on the job.....

Memorizing the setter/opposite is a neat trick - another official showed me that at a preseason clinic. I find that it comes in real handy for helping to track front row/back row, especially when I'm the R1. Instead of tracking another opposite pair, I've been going after the two players either side of the setter. I'll have to try your suggestion & see if it makes a difference....

I agree with your observation on setter involvement - probably 80% or better in my experience, and 90% of that when she's coming from either the LB or RB position.
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 12:53am
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Here is another comon situation that I have found where overlaps occur:

Setter is middle back and she is stacking up near the net with the middle front. The pair of them will often times not be in the middle of the court, they will shade to one side or the other. The overlap happens when the LB and RB pinch into the middle of the court to receive the serve. If they come in too much, or the setter is too far to one side of the court or the other, they are out of alignment. Sometimes this is diffcult to see, I ususally try to use the lines on basketball court to help or compare positions using the basketball center circle and the free throw circle, since they are the same size.
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Old Sun Oct 17, 2004, 01:39am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy
Here is another comon situation that I have found where overlaps occur:

Setter is middle back and she is stacking up near the net with the middle front. The pair of them will often times not be in the middle of the court, they will shade to one side or the other. The overlap happens when the LB and RB pinch into the middle of the court to receive the serve. If they come in too much, or the setter is too far to one side of the court or the other, they are out of alignment. Sometimes this is diffcult to see, I ususally try to use the lines on basketball court to help or compare positions using the basketball center circle and the free throw circle, since they are the same size.
Yeah, I've seen that one too. I had another one at a tournament today - setter was MB & stacked with middle front as you described, then when the opponent served, the middle front would drop back, only she had a real tendancy towards going early. I called her on it twice, after which she adjusted & never did it again that I saw.
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Old Sat Oct 23, 2004, 09:36am
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overlaps

I keep a lineup card with the players listed like on the scoresheet. At the beginning, I note who my setters are (watching during warmups to identify setters) and which players they are in between. As most overlaps occur with setters, that's where I watch. The setter can't cross either of those players she is between. I've caught that overlap where setter is middle back and crosses with RB or LB several times this season. Some coaches look at me like I'm nuts at first, but then usually see what I'm talking about. Sometimes, I wont call it right away, but will doublecheck my card and call it on the next serve or the next time around if there was a sideout. Usually, if they do it once, they keep doing it until they're caught.
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