3rd Time Out

[Zoochy]

Coach team A requests and is granted a 3rd TO in a set. This is an Unnecessary Delay. Does it immediately result in a Loss of Rally/Point awarded?

[genetoy71]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Does it immediately result in a Loss of Rally/Point awarded?

Your post stated that the penalty was Unnecessary Delay. If you know the proper penalty for that, then you answered your own question.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Coach team A requests and is granted a 3rd TO in a set. This is an Unnecessary Delay. Does it immediately result in a Loss of Rally/Point awarded?

Warning: No
Penalty: Yes

Your question doesn't state if it's the first UD of the set/match (depending on rule set), which is kind of a huge piece of information.

[Zoochy]

This was the 1st UD of set/match. So I read that this should be a Administration Yellow card.
Team A was losing 21-24 and Team B had the serve at the time of the TO request.
So allow the minute TO to exist. Apply a yellow card to team A. Return with Team B serving for the match point.
Also Coach of Team A would still be allowed to stand to coach.
If this is the procedure, then this is a minor slap on the wrist that allows Team A to regroup and slow down Team B
NFHS rules

[genetoy71]

The situation as described is really a lot more than simply requesting a timeout in excess of the number allowed and I believe warrants a penalty more severe than an administrative yellow card. Knowing that the coach was out of time outs and assuming that you had informed him of that fact after the team took their second one, my approach would be to practice preventive officiating. Suddenly develop poor hearing. You know what the coach is trying to do so just ignore him/her. If the coach persists and is standing outside of the legal coaching area and/or is loud/boisterous to the point where the request can no longer be ignored, penalize it for what it really is - unsporting conduct. Issue a red card, set over. This approach would be supported by applying Rule 12.2.1 (acting in unsporting manner) or 12.2.8.k (making excessive requests designed to disrupt set).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

This was the 1st UD of set/match. So I read that this should be a Administration Yellow card.
Team A was losing 21-24 and Team B had the serve at the time of the TO request.
So allow the minute TO to exist. Apply a yellow card to team A. Return with Team B serving for the match point.
Also Coach of Team A would still be allowed to stand to coach.
If this is the procedure, then this is a minor slap on the wrist that allows Team A to regroup and slow down Team B
NFHS rules

That's not the procedure.

Tell the coach he's used his two timeouts.
If s/he insists, blow the whistle, show the YUD signal, and give the court right back to R1 who can beckon with (almost) no interruption.

After the point, have the scorekeeper (if s/he didn't already) record the delay -- this won't take any longer than any needed action to get the ball back to the next server (and, heck, it might be the end of the set, so there's ltos of time)

[Zoochy]

Sorry genetoy71 and bob jenkins. I was not the R2. I do not know if the Coach was informed when they took their 2nd TO. I do not think the R2 replied to the Coach that they did not have any TO's remaining. The R2 immediately accepted the request of the 3rd TO. I knew it was an Unnecessary Delay. I did not know how to apply the situation. He came walking to me. Told me it was the 3rd TO and said game over and walked away. I was not sure of the ruling, so after the game I read the rule book and asked the question.
I appreciate all of your "you could have' and 'you should have' comments. It is too late I have gone home. We cannot redo the play. We can only learn from our mistakes

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's not the procedure.

Tell the coach he's used his two timeouts.
If s/he insists, blow the whistle, show the YUD signal, and give the court right back to R1 who can beckon with (almost) no interruption.

After the point, have the scorekeeper (if s/he didn't already) record the delay -- this won't take any longer than any needed action to get the ball back to the next server (and, heck, it might be the end of the set, so there's ltos of time)

Doesn't the R1 have to inform the captain what the card is for?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's not the procedure.

Tell the coach he's used his two timeouts.
If s/he insists, blow the whistle, show the YUD signal, and give the court right back to R1 who can beckon with (almost) no interruption.

After the point, have the scorekeeper (if s/he didn't already) record the delay -- this won't take any longer than any needed action to get the ball back to the next server (and, heck, it might be the end of the set, so there's ltos of time)

This isn't proper procedure either. The R2 is supposed to communicate with the scorer to assure the UD is properly noted on the score sheet. The UD needs to be recorded immediately.

We have a coach in my area that has developed a plan to use his UD Yellow's carefully and takes advantage of rules to give his team a break or get a "quick" time out.

Normally what he will do is send a sub to the substitution zone, then withdraw the substitution, resulting in an UD issuance. Since the R2 is required to make sure it is noted on the scoresheet, it gives him a few seconds to talk to his team before it is administered.

Our state association has been notified about this and has basically told our officials association that there is nothing to prevent him from doing it. They have said that it should not be considered as unsportsmanlike conduct because it is a situation covered within another area of the rules. (The UD rules).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Doesn't the R1 have to inform the captain what the card is for?

not for YUD, I don't think. Possibly for a YC for misconduct.

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This isn't proper procedure either. The R2 is supposed to communicate with the scorer to assure the UD is properly noted on the score sheet. The UD needs to be recorded immediately.

We have a coach in my area that has developed a plan to use his UD Yellow's carefully and takes advantage of rules to give his team a break or get a "quick" time out.

Normally what he will do is send a sub to the substitution zone, then withdraw the substitution, resulting in an UD issuance. Since the R2 is required to make sure it is noted on the scoresheet, it gives him a few seconds to talk to his team before it is administered.

Our state association has been notified about this and has basically told our officials association that there is nothing to prevent him from doing it. They have said that it should not be considered as unsportsmanlike conduct because it is a situation covered within another area of the rules. (The UD rules).

Fair enough. Different areas do it differently. We would try to minimize the coach breaking momentum, getting additional time by having the R note the YUD and getting the action resumed ASAP and catching up on the scoresheet a bit later (unless the scorekeeper is on his / her toes and gets it recorded right away). I agree it's not unsporting conduct.